Does Red Hack suck?

[Michael Jeffrey Tucker]

Perhaps he meant: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ -- Google's top hit tends to
be what I'm looking for :)

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Steven Didier wrote:

> Stefan Bruda wrote:
>
> >Hi all.
> >
> >At 08:55 +0000 on 2004-11-7 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
> > >
> > > After several trials to get YDL 4.0 to work on my PB 12" 1GHz (fine
> > > graphics but still no sound), I also gave Mandrake PPC 10 (beta) a
> > > try - total disaster, the thing won't even find a usb mouse, not to
> > > speak about no X at all.
> > > Then , from some message on the web, I found out ubuntu
> > > (www.ubuntu.org) and, while I was at it, I tried it as
> > > well. Miracle: a fast, clean installation, sound, graphics...
> >
> >Same goes here, though I am professor of computer science (thus a
> >geek) and went for (horror!) Gentoo instead of Ubuntu.;-) This being
> >said, the reason to switch was slightly different, as this happened
> >about one year ago (time at which 4.0 was only a project).  The reason
> >I switched was in fact three-fold:
> >
> >First, and most important, YDL has been featuring a one-year
> >period--actually it could have been more than one year, not sure--of
> >no security updates whatsoever.  Mind you, not because the
> >distribution was fool-proof, there were at least two kernel-level
> >vulnerabilities in the 2.4 series, and many other in the user space.
> >Essentially Terrasoft forwent their own distribution *before* having
> >anything as a replacement and as far as I know without any notice.
> >
> >Secondly, I ran--like everybody else sooner or later--into GCC
> >dependency hell.  I upgraded my GCC and all of a sudden the mozilla
> >plugin for Java refused to work--you see, the Java package was
> >compiled with a different GCC version.  This is just one example (to
> >which I will come back) and the RPM dependency hell also crept in
> >sooner rather than later.
> >
> >Thirdly, I am not wild about the YDL Enhanced account model.
> >Strangely enough Mandrake (if memory serves me well) has been put
> >against the wall for limited releases of their beta versions but I
> >have heard nothing against what is essentially the same model used by
> >Terrasoft.  I don't blame Terrasoft for their model, don't get me
> >wrong, but I don't have to like it either so I don't and in my mind
> >(which is not necessarily correct) it violates the spirit (if not the
> >letter) of the GPL.  Whilst I would have bought the CDs in a snap
> >(after downloading their product and checking it out), I will never
> >subscribe to an enhanced account.
> >
> >In the same line of thoughts, the 64-bit version of YDL seems to be
> >for sale only in the future.  As it happens, my
> >http://turing.ubishops.ca is a dual 2GHz G5 and I am also funded by
> >NSERC and the quebecois NSERC so I would not have a problem in getting
> >money for the said 64-bit version (when it appears), but I don't like
> >the idea so I will not--Turing and my other machine at school both
> >run, and will run for the foreseeable future Gentoo.
> >
> >In any event, because all these issues I first switched to Gentoo on
> >my powerbook, it went amazingly well, so then I switched my wife's
> >desktop and our sound server so that we are now a purely Gentoo
> >family.  The GCC dependency hell went away all of a sudden, and as a
> >bonus I got GCC 3.4, NPTL, udev, and many other cutting-edge goodies.
> >The dreaded many-days compile time of Gentoo did not quite affect me
> >as I upgraded a live system (with appropriately re-niced emerges) so
> >my downtime was nil.  Security updates are now available with minimal
> >delay and the GLSA (Gentoo Linux security advisory) system is
> >amazingly active.
> >
> >Oh yeah, and the G5s are notoriously slow when running generically
> >optimized code (as I found out first hand), so as opposed to YDL I do
> >get amazing speed out of my machine at the office simply by compiling
> >everything with the -mcpu=G5 set.
> >
> >Speaking now of the Red Hat RPM system (from which the discussion
> >apparently started ;-) ), strangely enough I just installed Fedora
> >Core 2 on a friend's laptop which allows me to enter the more general
> >discussion.  So is it just me or is the said system converging towards
> >the same performance (if not security flaws--though in the YDL case
> >with all that update-less year one would have some doubts on the
> >matter) as Windows?  I find about all the Red Hat-based applications
> >(and especially interfaces) bloated and patronizing.  The latter is
> >probably necessary for newbies but in any effect patronizing brings
> >bloat in the Red Hat world, and overall the feel of a Red Hat system
> >is slow and the user experience if not far off from the experience
> >under Windows.  Add to that a lot of things that do not work out of
> >the box (they probably don't in any other distribution except the
> >amazing Knoppix live CDs, but Anaconda--with its bloated graphical
> >interface--is supposed to be an easy to use installer as opposed to
> >Gentoo which has no installer whatsoever) and one wonders what is the
> >benefit of switching from Windows.  Easy to use interface does not
> >necessarily imply bloat, as shown by all the Debian-based distros and
> >especially Ubuntu, but this seems to have escaped to the Red Hat
> >developpers.
> >
> >Strangely enough, a Gentoo installation nowadays goes much smoother in
> >my experience than a Red Hat (Fedora Core, Mandrake, ...) one
> >(excluding the long time one does nothing awaiting for kdelibs to
> >compile).  The resulting system is *much* snappier too.
> >
> >To conclude, in my mind Terrasoft people shot themselves in the foot
> >by foregoing their product before having a replacement for it and by
> >using a business model which I personally do not approve.  To add to
> >that, Red Hat-based systems leave a lot to be desired in terms of
> >responsiveness, and this appears to be a continuing trend.  The future
> >is thus--at least in my mind--Debian (and Gentoo for the technically
> >inclined).
> >
> >In any case, this is my long-coming half-rant.  As with any rant, feel
> >free to do anything you want with the thing, from agreeing with it to
> >throwing it angrily into the garbage can.  All my Gentoo talk is in
> >need for a disclaimer too: I am a big fan of free software; I grew up
> >with Unix and I learned system administration on one of the first
> >Solaris out there (without a package manager and without GUI
> >configuration tools); I am one of those who adhere (in part) to the
> >saying that a GUI for administration tools are like air conditioning
> >for motorcycles.  In other words, don't take me more seriously than
> >necessarily.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Stefan
> >
> >
> >
> Excuse me Stefan, I tried the link you supplied to (www.ubuntu.org) that
> takes you to the Society for Civil Society! What distribution were you
> refering to "
>
>  Then , from some message on the web, I found out ubuntu
>  > (www.ubuntu.org) and, while I was at it, I tried it as
>  > well. Miracle: a fast, clean installation, sound, graphics..." ?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>