YDLFAQ-OT

[Derick Centeno]

Good Morning Fella:
I tend to tease a bit on this list but in the midst of it there is
some... kernel...of information.  Although to speak of kernels at this
point just now may be a bit confusing to some, (and perhaps unfair and
abusive of you at this time of the morning) but I'm not going to
apologize or comfort those who can't wade through jokes utilizing the
syntactical oddities of the English language.

Rather than obfuscate the issue further, you may note that my reply was
addressed to Bill Longman's comment that he was using a SPARC to run the
YDL FAQ website.  Stating the obvious...you should address your search
for benchmark stats regarding the SPARC to him.

As regarding acquiring benchmark stats regarding the venerable G3, I
could comply and just hand it to you as I own that system, but you may
find it easier to just run Tech Tools Pro v.3 on a 233MHz minitower
lying around a college basement somewhere (or maybe someone reworked the
case so that it functions as a transparent aquarium...in that
case...well, what can one say...) and get it to spill the results
directly to you.  As this configuration of the G3 runs as it does it
will not run Tech Tools v 4, as it is designed to run on Mac OS X, which
it won't run either.  However, the 233MHz G3 will run YDL 3.0 just fine
and peachy thank you, and make Mac OS X appear absolutely bloated.

Really...other than for historical research...why would these benchmarks
matter?  You may wish to review your query if you consider that Tech
Tools Pro v 3 may not be implementing the benchmarks as rigorously or
exactly as that implemented on the SPARC.  Of course, the only way
around that is to write the tests yourself!  The implementations of the
algorithms are not standard although the algorithms themselves are!
Remember different architectures do not allow for accurate evaluation
even when using the same algorithm because the language syntax of the
code used on these systems themselves induce added differences and
influences upon the results of the benchmark as well.  I just stated the
same thing twice.

Even if you ran Linux on the SPARC and Linux on the G3 and you wrote the
code exactly the same you would still get questionable results because
the nature of Linux itself isn't tight enough yet to be reliable across
the different architectures.  

Most software...most OSs...especially any version of Linux...only one or
two versions of Unix may escape this statement... cannot muster the
simple standard of any mathematical proof...not even at the arithmetic
level.  This sad fact has been demonstrated time and time again.  The
works of R.W. Hamming and Shoichiro Nakamura are very enlightening on
these points.

Prof. Nakamura highlights an interesting measurement called "machine
epsilon" which is the maximum round-off error for the number 1.  A
normal person would think -- an untrained person in computer science --
that a computer should at least be able to count to the number 1 without
problems, but NO THIS IS NOT SO, MON AMI!  He explores all kinds of
issues with computers which as far as I know, are usually overlooked and
unmeasured by benchmarks!

Of course,my view of most computers go downhill from that point. Every
computer has difficulties figuring out the number 1; you can figure they
would be absolutely baffled by YES or NO.  There are ways in hardware
and software to meet the error propagation problem which for EVERY
calculation is ADDITIVE, even errors in language syntax ADD to the
problem and certainly USER errors adds EVEN MORE errors, but that road
requires expense.  And as long as the marketplace runs "to the bottom"
computers with cheap architectures in critical functions - heart/lung
machines,electrical power grids, etc. -- continue to make "sense" to
"management".

For me, I can happily say that I run and live with a Mac and I have run
Nakamura's tests on it and IBM's more expensive systems (R/S 6000) and
when compared to other computers out there the Mac holds up very, very
nicely.  I'd be happier and -- we would all be safer -- if every
hospital and power company ran off high quality non-Intel and compatible
based computers.  But this is usually not the kind of information
benchmarks bring out and the whole phenomena of benchmarks...like the
phenomena of speed reading... is really of little use when comprehension
and truly intelligent decisions are lacking at the management/
supervisory level.

All this is a bit much for 9:30 am EST where I'm located, but I couldn't
letter this topic alone.  After all this time, still the best consumer
as Sid Sims would say in his commercials, a local clothing sales TV
personality who I actually met years ago at one of his stores - his
daughter runs things now, is an educated one.  Never forget, Caveat
Emptor!

Best wishes....

On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 23:25, admin@datazap.net wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I guess that I am really tired, because getting an email like this really
> makes me wonder.
> 
> So, is the YDLFAQ running on a sun SPARC.
> 
> Also, does anyone have any benchmarks from a G3 233Mhz and 167MHz SPARC.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> On 14 Sep 2004, Derick Centeno wrote:
> 
> > Date: 14 Sep 2004 23:05:26 -0400
> > From: Derick Centeno <aguilarojo@verizon.net>
> > Reply-To: yellowdog-general@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
> > To: YDL Gen <yellowdog-general@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
> > Subject: Re: YDLFAQ-OT
> >
> > ALL PRAISE TO THIS MARVELOUS ACCOMPLISHMENT!!
> >
> > HAIL!
> >
> > I can't believe that the G3 233Mhz is faster than the 167MHz SPARC and
> > IT IS RUNNING THE YDL FAQ WEBSITE (I guess running it on a Lisa running
> > Apple's earlier Unix or MkLinux would have been a bit much to
> > expect)....this is like saying that the farms along the Nile are still
> > irrigated using Archimedes Screw!!
> >
> > Wait a minute...THEY ARE!!
> >
> > Finally the lewd, can leave whatever drippings which pass as a semblance
> > of a mind, together with their links, ELSEWHERE.
> >
> > ALL HAIL TO THE PRAETOR OF THE YDL FAQ SITE...HAIL CAESAR!!
> >
> > On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 20:25, Longman, Bill wrote:
> > > YDoLers,
> > >
> > > THE YellowDog Linux FAQ page has been updated with the latest version of the
> > > SnipSnap engine. No longer will the spammers flock to our site because now
> > > their inane referrer lists are gone. Sigh.
> > >
> > > The YDL FAQ is found at <http://www.sharplabs.com:8668/>.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > PS - I heaved a large sigh of relief after the main page finally came up
> > > several minutes after I asked for it. The poor little 167MHz SPARC finally
> > > got its JVM motor running well enough to convert what it needed and give us
> > > back our web site.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > yellowdog-general mailing list
> > > yellowdog-general@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
> > > http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> > > HINT: to Google archives, try  '<keywords> site:terrasoftsolutions.com'
> >
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> 
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