OT - Care to share your opinion?

[Eric Dunbar]

> > > The Powermac was more expensive
> >
> > It was also probably the better computer. Are you sure you're
> > comparing apples and oranges there ;-).
> 
> It wasn't when it was new - ran System 7 compared to OS/2 - and still is't

Well, the question to ask is... which OS survived? OS/2 died an
ignominious death. I tried it in the mid 90s. It was neat but it was a
very rough OS. OS 7 evolved to 9 (and I'm sure your PMac runs OS 9!!!)

> > > Apple gear does not have a longer functional life.
> >
> > I must completely and utterly disagree with that. My father recently
> > (last year) retired my very first Mac from service, a 1986 Mac SE
> > upgraded to 16 MHz 68020 Prodigy accelerator (1987 vintage) running a
> > 20" monster of a monitor. It did duty as my mom's spread sheet & fax
> > computer.
> 
> Because your mother was willing to use a slug, though. YOU couldn't
> have coped with it.

It was extremely fast! It ran OS 6, Excel 4, Word 5 and FaxSTF. Yeah,
it didn't run colour but otherwise it was AOk!

> > The other fact that counters your argument is that used Macs retain
> > their value MUCH longer than i86 counterparts. You couldn't peddle a
> > 1999 vintage i86 for 400 CAD (~300-350 USD) yet you can very easily
> > sell off a 1999 G3 for that, and then some.
> 
> A B&W sells for around $150 now. Not $350.

Hmm. A Beige runs around $150 CAD. A B&W with half a gig of RAM and a
decent drive is over $300.

> > Another reason Macs have a longer functional life is that for the VAST
> > majority of people, it's easier to upgrade a (professional) Mac than
> > an i86. A 1999 B&W G3 has a defined upgrade path. Plunk in a decent
> > speed G4 and you have a *much* faster computer. Your i86 will require
> > you to do a hell of a lot more research to even determine if your mobo
> > will accept a faster CPU, and, even if it can, you'll need to figure
> > out what type and what brand.
> 
> The upgrades are cripplingly expensive - the 450Mhz G3 for my PMac
> would have cost me about $600 new.

Yeah, and at that same time a PIII 600 would've cost a comparable
amount. $600 != 450 MHz G3 in 2005!

> > The other thing to remember is you need to compare your apples to
> > oranges. Consumer Macs are no better or worse than their i86
> > counterparts, but, even they have long lifespans (provided the
> > hardware doesn't outright fail). Pro Macs are definitely the cream of
> > the crop as far as computers go -- you can expect your pro machine to
> > keep chugging away, LONG after your i86 IBM has given up the ghost.
> 
> Who made most of the insides of Mac's in the mid 1990's?
> Which company now has the better hardware rep

No idea. My perception of IBM is as a discount retailer that had to
get out of hardware ;-).

> My IE£2000 bought me a tank of a Power Macintosh - 180Mhz, 32MB RAM,
> 1.2GB HDD, 33.6 modem, 14x CD-ROM. It got me a 266Mhz, 32MB RAM, 4GB
> HDD, 33.6 modem,14x CD-ROM Thinkpad the same year. I bought the Mac in
> Ireland, got the TP in Canada.

Apples and oranges!!! You're not comparing the same thing since taxes
and duties are markedly different between the two countries. Also,
Apples hardware fetches a premium if you hadn't noticed. You're
forgetting that little benefit of having a guaranteed hardware profile
that is unambiguous in what it offers -- you can go to www.apple.com
and find out exactly what range of speeds and/or additions a
particular model had.

> The Mac has 1 PCI slot, a comms slot (in use for the modem) and an A/V
> slot. It has a soldered CPU and a cache slot that can take a 450Mhz
> CPU. It cant take a max of 136MB of extremely expensive EDO RAM. It
> can take about a 10GB HDD before it needs overlay apps (FWB), and the
> CD-ROM is not upgradable. Its running System 8.6. Graphics are 832x624
> from a 1MB raw framebuffer.

It was a consumer Mac that came out at the VERY END of that CPU's life
cycle. Whenever you buy a computer with a CPU that's the last of its
kind you can expect very rapid drop in support. G3s are now
effectively defunct. Yeah, software runs on it, but Apple's building
its software for hardware acceleration ;-)

> The Thinkpad has 2PCMCIA slots, a 33.6 modem that has been software
> upgraded to 56K (mwave). CPU is socketed but I've never got around to
> replacing it - have a 366 that would fit it. It can take a max of
> 160MB of very cheap SO-DIMM RAM. It can take a 40GB HDD with the
> latest BIOS upgrade, and I have a CD-RW in it. Its running XP.
> Graphics are 1024x768x16 bit (not 16 colours, 16 bit colour) from a
> 2MB Accelerated NeoMagic

That's the difference b/t a consumer and pro offering.

> Also, IBM's solid gear compared to Apple's recent crud - battery
> failures, emac raster-shift, ibook logic board death, imac bad HDD's,
> etc, etc, etc - I think I know which one will last longer.

I'm glad you do -- I know which hardware I'll continue to buy (NEVER
buy a consumer Mac... they're no better than the Dells or IBMs of the
world).

Eric.