From dcenteno at ydl.net  Fri Jan  1 08:01:38 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:01:38 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Fw:  Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
Message-ID: <20091231180138.2901951c@arakus>


Apologies:  I should have referred to the Toshiba SpursEngine.

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:23:53 -0500
From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies


I thought you, ... Toshiba
calls it's SPEC engine)....



=========

Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20091231/3110ee11/attachment.bin>

From Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov  Fri Jan  8 00:58:08 2010
From: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov (Robert Black)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:58:08 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
Message-ID: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>

Firefox on YDL 6.2 on the PS3 has no Java, so many web pages I like to  
view that have animations do not work. Is there a version of Java that  
can be installed?

Also, are there alternate web browsers available, or is Firefox the  
one-and-only?

Robert A. Black

Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026

Ph:   (305) 361-4314
FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)

E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
(Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)





From tomekpilot at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  8 04:14:30 2010
From: tomekpilot at yahoo.com (tomasz brymora)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:14:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <509852.94265.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

.... I had a iMac g3 running ydl 5.x with IBM's java 6. So my guess is yes, I think I posted the details on that on the forum, but have not been there in at least a year I think.
t

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov> wrote:

From: Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov>
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 10:58 AM

Firefox on YDL 6.2 on the PS3 has no Java, so many web pages I like to view that have animations do not work. Is there a version of Java that can be installed?

Also, are there alternate web browsers available, or is Firefox the one-and-only?

Robert A. Black

Research Meteorologist? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
NOAA/AOML/HRD? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Miami, FL 33149-1026

Ph:???(305) 361-4314
FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)

E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
(Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)




_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
HINT: to Google archives, try? '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100107/4600cc29/attachment.html>

From pjwall at mac.com  Fri Jan  8 07:53:01 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:53:01 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4B4665CD.6030106@mac.com>

Forgot to mention that Opera is also available for YDL and can be 
downloaded here 
http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/opera/linux/1010/final/en/ppc/shared/opera-10.10.gcc4.shared.qt3.ppc.rpm


Pat



Pat Wall wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> Fixstars have posted a howto on ydl.net for getting IBM's Java working 
> with Firefox - see 
> http://www.ydl.net/support/solutions/ydl_general/firefox-java.shtml 
> for the Howto with the runtime environment available here 
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html.
>
> Other browsers that come with YDL 6.2 are text-based elinks, lynx and 
> w3m with Konqueror available if you install KDE. The Epipheny browser 
> is not available within the YDL repositories but is available with 
> Fedora Core 6 - 
> http://archive.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/6/ppc/os/Fedora/RPMS/epiphany-2.16.0-4.fc6.ppc.rpm. 
>
>
> Dillo and Seamonkey can be compiled from source (I've compiled Dillo 
> but not Seamonkey).
>
> All the best
>
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert Black wrote:
>> Firefox on YDL 6.2 on the PS3 has no Java, so many web pages I like 
>> to view that have animations do not work. Is there a version of Java 
>> that can be installed?
>>
>> Also, are there alternate web browsers available, or is Firefox the 
>> one-and-only?
>>
>> Robert A. Black
>>
>> Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
>> NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026
>>
>> Ph:   (305) 361-4314
>> FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)
>>
>> E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
>> (Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
>> Unsuscribe info: 
>> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
>> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
>
>



From pjwall at mac.com  Fri Jan  8 07:56:31 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:56:31 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
Message-ID: <4B46669F.7030200@mac.com>

Hi Robert

Fixstars have posted a howto on ydl.net for getting IBM's Java working 
with Firefox - see 
http://www.ydl.net/support/solutions/ydl_general/firefox-java.shtml for 
the Howto with the runtime environment available here 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html.

Other browsers that come with YDL 6.2 are text-based elinks, lynx and 
w3m with Konqueror available if you install KDE. The Epipheny browser is 
not available within the YDL repositories but is available with Fedora 
Core 6 - 
http://archive.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/6/ppc/os/Fedora/RPMS/epiphany-2.16.0-4.fc6.ppc.rpm. 


Dillo and Seamonkey can be compiled from source (I've compiled Dillo but 
not Seamonkey).

All the best


Pat





Robert Black wrote:
> Firefox on YDL 6.2 on the PS3 has no Java, so many web pages I like to 
> view that have animations do not work. Is there a version of Java that 
> can be installed?
>
> Also, are there alternate web browsers available, or is Firefox the 
> one-and-only?
>
> Robert A. Black
>
> Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
> NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026
>
> Ph:   (305) 361-4314
> FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)
>
> E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
> (Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: 
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'




From pjwall at mac.com  Fri Jan  8 07:42:26 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:42:26 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <4B466352.3060102@mac.com>

Hi Robert

Fixstars have posted a howto on ydl.net for getting IBM's Java working 
with Firefox - see 
http://www.ydl.net/support/solutions/ydl_general/firefox-java.shtml for 
the Howto with the runtime environment available here 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html.

Other browsers that come with YDL 6.2 are text-based elinks, lynx and 
w3m with Konqueror available if you install KDE. The Epipheny browser is 
not available within the YDL repositories but is available with Fedora 
Core 6 - 
http://archive.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/6/ppc/os/Fedora/RPMS/epiphany-2.16.0-4.fc6.ppc.rpm.

Dillo and Seamonkey can be compiled from source (I've compiled Dillo but 
not Seamonkey).

All the best


Pat










Robert Black wrote:
> Firefox on YDL 6.2 on the PS3 has no Java, so many web pages I like to 
> view that have animations do not work. Is there a version of Java that 
> can be installed?
>
> Also, are there alternate web browsers available, or is Firefox the 
> one-and-only?
>
> Robert A. Black
>
> Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
> NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026
>
> Ph:   (305) 361-4314
> FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)
>
> E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
> (Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: 
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'



From ray at unipay.nl  Fri Jan  8 21:00:52 2010
From: ray at unipay.nl (R. Hirschfeld)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:00:52 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation Question -- addendum
In-Reply-To: <20091231011426.631ccdbf@arakus> (message from Derick Centeno on
	Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:14:26 -0500)
References: <20091231011426.631ccdbf@arakus>
Message-ID: <201001081200.o08C0q74008018@home.unipay.nl>

> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:14:26 -0500
> From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> 
> Just to be explicit, any one Linux computer owned by an individual has
> one and only one root account.  If however there is a family or group
> sharing the computer then there can be multiple user accounts each with
> a user password, but still there is only one root.

Actually, any account with uid 0 will have root privileges regardless
of username, and you can have as many of them as you want (although
many consider it a bad idea to have multiple root accounts).

In some unix systems (e.g., BSD, I think), there is a standard second
root account with username "toor" (root spelled backwards).  This can
be handy if you want to use a root account with a non-standard default
shell that doesn't reside in the root filesystem but leave another
with a standard shell for use in single user mode or emergencies.

Long ago (in simpler times) I once had an account on a shared system
(a research machine at a university) on which *all* users were given
uid 0!

Ray

From sjh at netspace.net.au  Sat Jan  9 08:38:11 2010
From: sjh at netspace.net.au (Stephen Harker)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:38:11 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>

On Thu, Jan 07, 2010 at 10:42:26PM +0000, Pat Wall wrote:
> Hi Robert
> 
> Fixstars have posted a howto on ydl.net for getting IBM's Java working 
> with Firefox - see 
> http://www.ydl.net/support/solutions/ydl_general/firefox-java.shtml for 
> the Howto with the runtime environment available here 
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html.

I had followed a similar procedure using the latest IBM Java
(ibm-java-ppc-sdk-6.0-6.0.ppc.rpm) and it worked well with the Firefox
supplied with YDL 6.2 and with a self-compiled Firefox 3.5.4.
However, when I upgraded to a self-compiled Firefox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5
Java did not work.  At the moment I have no idea why.

-- 
Stephen Harker                           s.harker at adfa.edu.au
PEMS                http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW at ADFA

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sun Jan 10 04:33:04 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:33:04 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>

It's easy to forget that YDL is based on CentOS which is designed to be
two or three versions behind the latest bleeding edge releases of Linux
in the effort to maintain stability.  Therefore supporting rpms are
likewise not in the latest versions either.

So if you are building any applications from source you need to make
sure that you also build from source all related rpms, but before all
that you also need to remove from YDL the rpms of dependencies and
applications which are already installed which you intend to replace.
I've gotten caught by this requirement myself several times. This whole
process is rather tedious but if you get through it all, you will have
eventually what you want as you want it.

On Sat, 2010-01-09 at 10:38 +1100, Stephen Harker wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 07, 2010 at 10:42:26PM +0000, Pat Wall wrote:
> > Hi Robert
> > 
> > Fixstars have posted a howto on ydl.net for getting IBM's Java working 
> > with Firefox - see 
> > http://www.ydl.net/support/solutions/ydl_general/firefox-java.shtml for 
> > the Howto with the runtime environment available here 
> > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html.
> 
> I had followed a similar procedure using the latest IBM Java
> (ibm-java-ppc-sdk-6.0-6.0.ppc.rpm) and it worked well with the Firefox
> supplied with YDL 6.2 and with a self-compiled Firefox 3.5.4.
> However, when I upgraded to a self-compiled Firefox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5
> Java did not work.  At the moment I have no idea why.
> 


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100109/1cc0032a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100109/1cc0032a/attachment.bin>

From sjh at adfa.edu.au  Sun Jan 10 07:38:00 2010
From: sjh at adfa.edu.au (Stephen Harker)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>

On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 02:33:04PM -0500, Derick Centeno wrote:
> So if you are building any applications from source you need to make
> sure that you also build from source all related rpms, but before all
> that you also need to remove from YDL the rpms of dependencies and
> applications which are already installed which you intend to replace.
> I've gotten caught by this requirement myself several times. This whole
> process is rather tedious but if you get through it all, you will have
> eventually what you want as you want it.

There was no problem in building Firebox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5.  They run
well, it is merely that the IBM Java plugin does not work.  From what
I understand (see < http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1366480>)
Firefox 3.6 needs a different plugin and it is only available for Sun
Java at the moment. 

Looking through the article I see they refer to an article with more
detail: <http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1576825>
which says:

>-------------------------------------------------
You need to use the new Java plugin.

<java install>/lib/<platform>/libnpjp2.so
>-------------------------------------------------

I find there is a /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so
So I will have to try this and see if it works with the IBM Java.

Having 

cd /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins then 
ln -s /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so

then restarted Firefox 3.6b5 I now find

Java(TM) Plug-in 1.6.0

    File: libnpjp2.so
    Version: 
    The next generation Java plug-in for Mozilla browsers.

MIME Type 	Description 	Suffixes 	Enabled
application/x-java-vm 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in Applet 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.1.3 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.2.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.3 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.3.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.4.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.5 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;version=1.6 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-applet;jpi-version=1.6 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in JavaBeans 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.1.3 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.2.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.3 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.3.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4.1 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.4.2 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.5 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;version=1.6 	Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes
application/x-java-bean;jpi-version=1.6 Java$(C"b(B Plug-in 		Yes

So, this has been a useful thread for me (and hopefully others).  I
don't know if anyone else is using a self-compiled Firefox 3.6 beta,
but it will be useful for them or for when Firefox 3.6 is released.
It is possible to get the latest IBM Java to work as a plugin under
these releases.

-- 
Stephen Harker                           s.harker at adfa.edu.au
PEMS                http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW at ADFA

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sun Jan 10 09:03:12 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:03:12 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1263081792.4682.18.camel@arakus>


On Sun, 2010-01-10 at 09:38 +1100, Stephen Harker wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 02:33:04PM -0500, Derick Centeno wrote:
> > So if you are building any applications from source you need to make
> > sure that you also build from source all related rpms, but before all
> > that you also need to remove from YDL the rpms of dependencies and
> > applications which are already installed which you intend to replace.
> > I've gotten caught by this requirement myself several times. This whole
> > process is rather tedious but if you get through it all, you will have
> > eventually what you want as you want it.
> 
> There was no problem in building Firebox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5.  They run
> well, it is merely that the IBM Java plugin does not work....


Thanks for your reply Steve.  You've provided a clue regarding an
approach which I previously missed regarding getting complied programs
up and running.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100109/4d9b3d26/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100109/4d9b3d26/attachment-0001.bin>

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sun Jan 10 13:54:27 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 23:54:27 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation Question -- addendum
In-Reply-To: <201001081200.o08C0q74008018@home.unipay.nl>
References: <20091231011426.631ccdbf@arakus>
	<201001081200.o08C0q74008018@home.unipay.nl>
Message-ID: <20100109235427.529c6693@arakus>

On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:00:52 +0100
"R. Hirschfeld" <ray at unipay.nl> wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:14:26 -0500
> > From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> > 
> > Just to be explicit, any one Linux computer owned by an individual
> > has one and only one root account.  If however there is a family or
> > group sharing the computer then there can be multiple user accounts
> > each with a user password, but still there is only one root.
> 
> Actually, any account with uid 0 will have root privileges regardless
> of username, and you can have as many of them as you want (although
> many consider it a bad idea to have multiple root accounts).
> 
> In some unix systems (e.g., BSD, I think), there is a standard second
> root account with username "toor" (root spelled backwards).  This can
> be handy if you want to use a root account with a non-standard default
> shell that doesn't reside in the root filesystem but leave another
> with a standard shell for use in single user mode or emergencies.
> 
> Long ago (in simpler times) I once had an account on a shared system
> (a research machine at a university) on which *all* users were given
> uid 0!
> 
> Ray
Hi Ray:

What you describe is possible but in my experience such systems with
multiple root designations are development systems.  In other words,
such systems exist within offices or sites where programmers or others
are using or designing code implementing applications either in-house
for a company or university or cooperating together for a group project
to fulfill a contract.  Even in such scenarios, root access was
strictly controlled.

Other than this scenario, as you noted, it is not a good idea to have
multiple root accounts as such access can wreck destructive havoc in any
Unix/Linux environment.  Even if one is very skilled, utilizing only one
root account it can be an annoying challenge when one makes a mistake
and needs to reinstall or reconstruct/repair an entire Linux
installation from scratch.

All the best...



=========

Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.

From pjwall at mac.com  Tue Jan 12 02:27:10 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:27:10 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>

Hi Stephen

I finally got around to building firefox 3.6rc1 and many thanks for
pointing out how to get the java plugin recognised. I found that in my
own case I can see it in about:plugins but when I try and display any
applet (such as java.con version test) firefox crashes with the
error below and I was wondering if anyone has seen anything similar on
YDL? (haven't investigated further and just had a quick google)

Thanks


Pat


[pjwall at powermacg5 ~]$ firefox
Unhandled exception
Type=Segmentation error vmState=0x00000000
J9Generic_Signal_Number=00000004 Signal_Number=0000000b
Error_Value=00000000 Signal_Code=00000001
Handler1=0D3D1600 Handler2=0D33D320
R0=0D3499FC R1=FFB6F8A8 R2=F741C7F0 R3=FF050538
R4=00000001 R5=FF050538 R6=FFB6F9B5 R7=00000004
R8=00000065 R9=0000001B R10=00000000 R11=FFB6FB0A
R12=24808448 R13=10026720 R14=00000000 R15=00000000
R16=00000020 R17=FFFFFFF8 R18=00000024 R19=F39837F0
R20=F2EA1390 R21=0D59EC38 R22=0D433598 R23=EABB8038
R24=FFB6FEE8 R25=EABB8038 R26=FFB6F958 R27=FFB6FAD8
R28=00000000 R29=00000065 R30=0D35F608 R31=0D35F608
NIP=0D35255C MSR=0200F032 ORIG_GPR3=FFB6FEE8 CTR=0D349598
LINK=0D3499FC XER=00000010 CCR=24808448 MQ=00000001
TRAP=00000300 DAR=FF050538 dsisr=40000000 RESULT=00000000
Module=/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so
Module_base_address=0D327000
Target=2_40_20090923_042924 (Linux 2.6.29-3.ydl61.4)
CPU=ppc (2 logical CPUs) (0x7a298000 RAM)
----------- Stack Backtrace -----------
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33425c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d058c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d13dc]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ecfc]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d16e8]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33d464]
[0x100350]
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin [0x1001e750]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd3499fc]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd347f48]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd348014]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd32d6e4]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ff8c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd41657c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416bb0]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416ea4]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416f88]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8a9dc0]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8e7014]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8ec5a0]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so(J9VMDllMain+0xe4)
[0xc8ec6e4]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3fc250]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd4294a8]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3ff39c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3fbb10]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ecfc]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd402940]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so(JNI_CreateJavaVM+0xe0)
[0xd3e7c40]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/j9vm/libjvm.so(JNI_CreateJavaVM+0x6ac)
[0xd5752ec]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so [0xd5b802c]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(JavaVM_GetJNIEnv+0x44)
[0xd5b80c0]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(_ZN17MozPluginInstance16GlobalInitializeEv+0x74)
[0xd5badd0]
/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(NPP_New+0x58) [0xd5ba938]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed01ac8]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed09718]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed09914]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed106f8]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe6886e8]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe68f628]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe8017c0]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe801aa0]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xef0af08]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xeec70b4]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xee071e0]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xec87814]
/opt/firefox/libxul.so(XRE_main+0x1b34) [0xe41e510]
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin [0x10002478]
/lib/libc.so.6 [0xf48dc0c]
/lib/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0x144) [0xf48de34]
---------------------------------------
JVMDUMP006I Processing dump event "gpf", detail "" - please wait.
JVMDUMP032I JVM requested System dump using
'/home/pjwall/core.20100111.170951.31027.0001.dmp' in response to an event
JVMDUMP010I System dump written
to /home/pjwall/core.20100111.170951.31027.0001.dmp
JVMDUMP032I JVM requested Snap dump using
'/home/pjwall/Snap.20100111.170951.31027.0002.trc' in response to an event
JVMDUMP010I Snap dump written
to /home/pjwall/Snap.20100111.170951.31027.0002.trc
JVMDUMP032I JVM requested Java dump using
'/home/pjwall/javacore.20100111.170951.31027.0003.txt' in response to an event
JVMDUMP010I Java dump written
to /home/pjwall/javacore.20100111.170951.31027.0003.txt
JVMDUMP013I Processed dump event "gpf", detail "".
/opt/firefox/run-mozilla.sh: line 131: 31027 Segmentation fault
"$prog" ${1+"$@"}
[pjwall at powermacg5 ~]$ 





> There was no problem in building Firebox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5.  They run
> well, it is merely that the IBM Java plugin does not work.  From what
> I understand (see < http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1366480>)
> Firefox 3.6 needs a different plugin and it is only available for Sun
> Java at the moment. 
> 
>

From pjwall at mac.com  Wed Jan 13 02:52:27 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:52:27 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100112175227.626b97fc@powermacg5.ydl>

I updated the java plugin to the November release and created a new
firefox profile but Firefox 3.6rc1 still crashes on loading an applet.I
presume it is a case of waiting for IBM to produce a compatible update.



On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:27:10 +0000
Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:

> Hi Stephen
> 
> I finally got around to building firefox 3.6rc1 and many thanks for
> pointing out how to get the java plugin recognised. I found that in my
> own case I can see it in about:plugins but when I try and display any
> applet (such as java.con version test) firefox crashes with the
> error below and I was wondering if anyone has seen anything similar on
> YDL? (haven't investigated further and just had a quick google)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Pat
> 
> 
> [pjwall at powermacg5 ~]$ firefox
> Unhandled exception
> Type=Segmentation error vmState=0x00000000
> J9Generic_Signal_Number=00000004 Signal_Number=0000000b
> Error_Value=00000000 Signal_Code=00000001
> Handler1=0D3D1600 Handler2=0D33D320
> R0=0D3499FC R1=FFB6F8A8 R2=F741C7F0 R3=FF050538
> R4=00000001 R5=FF050538 R6=FFB6F9B5 R7=00000004
> R8=00000065 R9=0000001B R10=00000000 R11=FFB6FB0A
> R12=24808448 R13=10026720 R14=00000000 R15=00000000
> R16=00000020 R17=FFFFFFF8 R18=00000024 R19=F39837F0
> R20=F2EA1390 R21=0D59EC38 R22=0D433598 R23=EABB8038
> R24=FFB6FEE8 R25=EABB8038 R26=FFB6F958 R27=FFB6FAD8
> R28=00000000 R29=00000065 R30=0D35F608 R31=0D35F608
> NIP=0D35255C MSR=0200F032 ORIG_GPR3=FFB6FEE8 CTR=0D349598
> LINK=0D3499FC XER=00000010 CCR=24808448 MQ=00000001
> TRAP=00000300 DAR=FF050538 dsisr=40000000 RESULT=00000000
> Module=/opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so
> Module_base_address=0D327000
> Target=2_40_20090923_042924 (Linux 2.6.29-3.ydl61.4)
> CPU=ppc (2 logical CPUs) (0x7a298000 RAM)
> ----------- Stack Backtrace -----------
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33425c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d058c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d13dc]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ecfc]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3d16e8]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33d464]
> [0x100350]
> /opt/firefox/firefox-bin [0x1001e750]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd3499fc]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd347f48]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd348014]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd32d6e4]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ff8c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd41657c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416bb0]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416ea4]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd416f88]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8a9dc0]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8e7014]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so [0xc8ec5a0]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libjclscar_24.so(J9VMDllMain+0xe4)
> [0xc8ec6e4]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3fc250]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd4294a8]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3ff39c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd3fbb10]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9prt24.so [0xd33ecfc]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so [0xd402940]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libj9vm24.so(JNI_CreateJavaVM+0xe0)
> [0xd3e7c40]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/j9vm/libjvm.so(JNI_CreateJavaVM+0x6ac)
> [0xd5752ec]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so [0xd5b802c]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(JavaVM_GetJNIEnv+0x44)
> [0xd5b80c0]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(_ZN17MozPluginInstance16GlobalInitializeEv+0x74)
> [0xd5badd0]
> /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/lib/ppc/libnpjp2.so(NPP_New+0x58) [0xd5ba938]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed01ac8]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed09718]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed09914]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xed106f8]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe6886e8]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe68f628]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe8017c0]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xe801aa0]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xef0af08]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xeec70b4]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xee071e0]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so [0xec87814]
> /opt/firefox/libxul.so(XRE_main+0x1b34) [0xe41e510]
> /opt/firefox/firefox-bin [0x10002478]
> /lib/libc.so.6 [0xf48dc0c]
> /lib/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0x144) [0xf48de34]
> ---------------------------------------
> JVMDUMP006I Processing dump event "gpf", detail "" - please wait.
> JVMDUMP032I JVM requested System dump using
> '/home/pjwall/core.20100111.170951.31027.0001.dmp' in response to an
> event JVMDUMP010I System dump written
> to /home/pjwall/core.20100111.170951.31027.0001.dmp
> JVMDUMP032I JVM requested Snap dump using
> '/home/pjwall/Snap.20100111.170951.31027.0002.trc' in response to an
> event JVMDUMP010I Snap dump written
> to /home/pjwall/Snap.20100111.170951.31027.0002.trc
> JVMDUMP032I JVM requested Java dump using
> '/home/pjwall/javacore.20100111.170951.31027.0003.txt' in response to
> an event JVMDUMP010I Java dump written
> to /home/pjwall/javacore.20100111.170951.31027.0003.txt
> JVMDUMP013I Processed dump event "gpf", detail "".
> /opt/firefox/run-mozilla.sh: line 131: 31027 Segmentation fault
> "$prog" ${1+"$@"}
> [pjwall at powermacg5 ~]$ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > There was no problem in building Firebox 3.6b3 or 3.6b5.  They run
> > well, it is merely that the IBM Java plugin does not work.  From
> > what I understand (see <
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1366480>) Firefox 3.6
> > needs a different plugin and it is only available for Sun Java at
> > the moment. 
> > 
> >

From somsak at inox.co.th  Thu Jan 14 16:44:13 2010
From: somsak at inox.co.th (Somsak Sriprayoonsakul)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:44:13 +0700
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation fail on Blade JS22
Message-ID: <a5e88b2a1001132344j755aa03ena6d2a3087dd49425@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Sorry if the question seems too stupid, but we are desperately trying to
find the answer on this but no exact answers found yet.

We are trying to install YDL6.2 on an IBM Blade JS22. However, we could not
get pass even the yaboot prompt, the installer failed immediately after
loading ramdisk. My guess is that YDL does not support IBM Blade JS22, but I
couldn't find the exact answer on this, despite that IBM Blade JS2x is
listed as supported hardware.

If YDL6.2 is really not supported on JS22, could you suggest any free linux
distribution that support such hardware?

Thanks,

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somsak Sriprayoonsakul

somsak at inox.co.th
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100114/809c084c/attachment.html>

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 18:30:47 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:30:47 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation fail on Blade JS22
In-Reply-To: <a5e88b2a1001132344j755aa03ena6d2a3087dd49425@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5e88b2a1001132344j755aa03ena6d2a3087dd49425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001140130u327bed9anef5bf34fb8bdd17e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Somsak Sriprayoonsakul
<somsak at inox.co.th> wrote:
...snip...
> If YDL6.2 is really not supported on JS22, could you suggest any free linux
> distribution that support such hardware?
> Thanks,

Hmmm... I guess I would try Fedora. I don't know much about the IBM
linux scene but when I think IBM, somehow or rather RHEL always pops
up as an association, so I guess for a POWER6, maybe fedora as as far
as I know CentOS doesn't exist for it.

Just glancing at the release notes, there is some mention that fedora
12 has been 'installed and tested' on POWER5 and 6 machines but I
don't exactly know what that means.

Did IBM help you out here at all? I dunno if  you know someone there,
maybe they can tell you what specific flavour of linux they recommend
(?RHEL - I have no idea how much this costs though).

Other things I guess, you may have already tried - checking the
install medium, checking the hardware, swapping round / minimising
hardware present, trying to see if you can track the boot to where
exactly it fails etc...  Other than that I have no ideas unfortunately
- I am not sure how the installer actually runs and what it expects to
be honest as it installed my YDL with no problems (PS3 / x86 guy
here).

> Somsak Sriprayoonsakul

R Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Thu Jan 14 23:40:36 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:40:36 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation fail on Blade JS22
In-Reply-To: <a5e88b2a1001132344j755aa03ena6d2a3087dd49425@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5e88b2a1001132344j755aa03ena6d2a3087dd49425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100114094036.763f0505@arakus>

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:44:13 +0700
Somsak Sriprayoonsakul <somsak at inox.co.th> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Sorry if the question seems too stupid, but we are desperately trying
> to find the answer on this but no exact answers found yet.
> 
> We are trying to install YDL6.2 on an IBM Blade JS22. However, we
> could not get pass even the yaboot prompt, the installer failed
> immediately after loading ramdisk. My guess is that YDL does not
> support IBM Blade JS22, but I couldn't find the exact answer on this,
> despite that IBM Blade JS2x is listed as supported hardware.
> 
> If YDL6.2 is really not supported on JS22, could you suggest any free
> linux distribution that support such hardware?
> 
> Thanks,
> 

Hi Somsak:

Please refer to this official site:

http://www.ydl.net/support/hardware/ibm.shtml

Note that IBM JS2x series is supported by a different Fixstars product
called Yellow Dog Enterprise Linux BSP.  Clicking on that link will
take you here: 

http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/ydel/

The pages discussing YDEL describe in detail what this
enhanced/specialized version of YDL is.  You will notice that although
there is no mention of JS2x support on the YDEL pages, probably due to
recent changes at Fixstars, there are links to contacts within Fixstars
where you can ask for more details regarding JS2x support utilizing
YDEL.

Note that YDEL is a commercial and proprietary product.  YDL however,
the version you tried to use is designed to be an open source product
over a brief period of time after it's official release.  There always
has been a distinction between YDEL and YDL.

I am not connected with Fixstars nor can I provide more detailed
information than what I've shared with you here.  Please follow the
recommended advice and contact Fixstars directly for more information.

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100114/224efd3a/attachment-0001.bin>

From Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov  Fri Jan 15 03:18:13 2010
From: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov (Robert Black)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:18:13 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
Message-ID: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>

I too have so far failed to get a working Java on the PS3. I  
downloaded the all files with the latest release from the IBM web  
site, Tried to install them, & got a message that the JRE and SDK  
needed another .so file. I found & downloaded that, re-installed the  
SDK, & that worked. Tried to re-install the JRE, and it now claims to  
be incompatible with the latest SDK from IBM. A complete runaround.  
Result: No java capability w/Firefox on the PS-3.

YDL 6.2 (so far) fails to meet minimal functionality requirements for  
me, although I can check email with it.

Good thing this is at home, & not here at work.

Robert A. Black

Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026

Ph:   (305) 361-4314
FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)

E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
(Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)





From Rhubbell at iHubbell.com  Fri Jan 15 05:04:37 2010
From: Rhubbell at iHubbell.com (rhubbell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:04:37 -0800
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
In-Reply-To: <20091226163423.33cc468c@arakus>
References: <COL111-W1459CEEE0FA42725AEA47D85820@phx.gbl>
	<20091223102323.6e3a53c7@arakus>
	<1d5b8ec30912231509y8cc1357x6e4681c7c1349c15@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091224152742.24a66470@arakus>
	<C8D1E231-3A71-4B72-93DA-34B9BD921B4C@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224164454.72f457d5@arakus>
	<657756DA-2EE3-4049-9BD3-D24346F30AC4@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224172801.33b9abc5@arakus>
	<70B6D0A8-E8AE-49F4-BCAE-20A2D0283721@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091226163423.33cc468c@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100114120437.38c4871e.Rhubbell@iHubbell.com>

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:34:23 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:37:34 -0800
> Warren Nagourney <warren at phys.washington.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Derick.
> > 
> > Although this is a YDL forum, I am afraid to say that there is no  
> > comparison between any linux on PPC and OS X. The former simply  
> > doesn't have the software base that I need. I used to think that it  
> > would be faster than OS X, but after a few installations of linux on  
> > Apple computers, I discovered that OS X wins hands down in the speed  
> > area as well. I think that linux is optimized for x86 and of course  
> > things like flash are only available on x86 linux (I hate flash, but  
> > it unfortunately has become a standard for internet video). There
> > are still some PPC optimizations in OS X apps and maybe even some
> > Altivec usage (which allows Quicktime to smoothly run at 1080p on my
> > PPC machines). The tasks involved in writing my book would have been  
> > enormously greater if I had used linux instead of OS X.
> 
> Prior to my relationship with TSS, I tried my hand at being an Apple
> developer.   Every course Apple offered (beyond the one free
> introduction in programming for the Mac) were expensive. Beyond that 
> you had to complete specialized seminar training at the
> Apple Campus at Cupertino!! Add to that costs for travel, hotels and
> accommodations, etc an individual developer like myself could not do
> that. Corporations and Universities with deep budgets however are
> another matter.
> 
> Within YDL however I could write and create things which ran and
> explore my own technical interests occasionally sharing them as open
> source projects which may or may not have interested others -- without
> it costing blood money, mainly mine.
> 
> There are entertaining applications for OS X, however if you really
> get into the source of how Apple did things then and does things still,
> and requires that they be done, nearly any careful programmer would see
> "spaghetti" code -- meaning inexplicable layers between the executing
> program within Apple's operating system and how that program must
> function to implement hooks into established and approved Apple tools.  
> 
> This is really the secret reason why you see no improvement in
> efficiency between your version of the Mac OS and the current or recent
> versions of Mac OS. The spaghetti has gotten "longer" and there aren't
> enough cores or processing speed to "eat" or process it all.
> 
> The TSS team avoided the spaghetti method of programming implemented by
> Microsoft and Apple.  YDL and other TSS products are faster because all
> that junk -- that spaghetti -- doesn't exist.
> 
> Although nearly everyone wants to have the functionality without the
> spaghetti, it isn't easy to do as Apple and Microsoft have proven by
> regularly losing their products into baffling code which not only
> wastes computer cycles, but also costs consumers money by costing time.
> Straightforward and intentionally well designed programming helps any
> processor, but with all that junk removed PowerPC systems running YDL
> have no peer -- period. 
> 
> Consider also that it is rather sad that even all the work Apple has
> done, in professional settings where operating systems are tested
> yearly for efficient processing and security -- Linux comes in First,
> Windows comes second and the Mac sometimes doesn't come in third place
> because other operating systems are stronger.  These tests have
> been going on for at least 10+ years!!  No Apple operating system
> has ever achieved second place!!  Allow me to be clear about this, there
> is no point on working on any computer whose data can be compromised via
> theft by breeches in wireless or other network, or system access
> vulnerabilities. Why would anyone risk it? Yet people do all the time
> because they are lulled into forgetting how vulnerable their data is as
> well as intentionally misdirected regarding how strong the operating
> system they choose to use actually is regarding protecting their
> personal and business work.  You would think that many would understand
> by this date the threat of theft of their work and their personal and
> work related identities, but no.  
> 
> That however is a whole different problem.  In consideration of
> the talent which was at Apple or Microsoft, they could and should have
> done much, much better. 
> 
> Spaghetti is fine for humans to consume as an enjoyable meal together
> with meat balls, sauces, etc. -- it is not intended for processors which
> would have to follow Moore's Law advanced infinitely every microsecond
> to successfully digest all the spaghetti humans can generate just by
> sheer imagination.

The old saying comes to mind....
"What Intel giveth Microsoft taketh away." Add to that Apple now too.

> 
> 
> =========
> 
> Refranes/Popular sayings:
> The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
> There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.

From Rhubbell at iHubbell.com  Fri Jan 15 04:42:35 2010
From: Rhubbell at iHubbell.com (rhubbell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:35 -0800
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
In-Reply-To: <20091224152742.24a66470@arakus>
References: <COL111-W1459CEEE0FA42725AEA47D85820@phx.gbl>
	<20091223102323.6e3a53c7@arakus>
	<1d5b8ec30912231509y8cc1357x6e4681c7c1349c15@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091224152742.24a66470@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100114114235.d839f441.Rhubbell@iHubbell.com>

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:42 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100
> Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> > wrote: ...snip...
> > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet" other
> > > PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program using YDL on
> > > various hardware systems. ?There's a lot a good people there who
> > > can help you move forward a lot faster than you going it solo.
> > 
> > I completely agree. There are not many online forums for YDL - I
> > believe this mailing list and the YDL board
> > http://www.yellowdog-board.com/ are the only two specific ones.
> > 
> > I am new to YDL too myself. I suspect not many people use it very much
> > these days if traffic in these lists or the YDL board is anything to
> > go by, at least relative to the traffic you can see on the ubuntu
> > boards.
> >       
> 
> You are quite right Robert, the traffic regarding PowerPC programming
> has changed quite a bit over the years.  There had been a great deal of
> traffic here when Apple incorporated the PowerPC in it's computer
> hardware.  When Apple switched to Intel there were many changes in
> the traffic here and then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony developed game
> systems which incorporated not only the most advanced PowerPC system
> available to date (the Cell) but the most intensively powerful CPU
> available to consumers.  Out of all these companies however only Sony
> allowed an option which allowed users to use and run YDL on their PS3s
> thereby turning what had been merely a game computer into the
> equivalent of a supercomputer available to forward looking consumers.
> 
> Of course, not everyone who purchased the PS3 would be interested in
> hi-tech programming on the Cell but that potential was available as
> long as Sony allowed the OtherOS option to exist.  With the OtherOS
> option all members of the family could not only play games but explore
> advanced technical areas ranging from introductory to advanced
> programming concepts of nearly every level of endeavor.  The only
> comparison I can think of is imagining families with the PS3 being
> awarded a free perpetual opportunity to attend the most advanced
> computer labs at MIT or Stanford or Yale for their own personal
> exploration and use. The Cell is that flexible.

I hadn't heard that the CELL was end-of-lifed. I guess it's true.
But any idea why?  Who killed the Cell/BE?

Toshiba owns the chip fab? Have they announced anything?
I see the Zego vanished. What about the blades based on Cell/BE?

Collectivism at work? Too much compute power for the citizen?

> 
> However for various reasons Sony closed that potential when the Slim
> version of the PS3 was released while they almost simultaneously
> announced that no further PS3s would be produced with the OtherOS
> option which meant that only the previous generation PS3s with the
> OtherOS option would continue to be sold until the inventory was
> exhausted.  This meant that although there would continue to be persons
> who ran YDL on PS3s that number would be finite and would not include
> anyone who purchased the PS3 Slim forward.  
> 
> Fixstars which produces YDL, runs on many PowerPC systems however fewer
> of these available systems exist at a price which consumers normally
> purchase between $200-$500.  Fixstar's PowerStation for instance can be
> had for $1000+ and if one wants the Cell included with that there
> exists a PCI card which one can purchase fits into the PowerStation
> beginning at $6,000+.  There will be lovers of hi-tech and
> professionals involved in programming advanced systems who will use YDL,
> YDEL, etc.  which run on such PowerPC technologies which may be or
> become available but this is no longer the "family" or "consumer"
> priced systems which people have considered as reasonably affordable
> over during the years Apple or Sony sold their systems which means as
> well that fewer people will have experience with advanced computers.
> 
> Intel technology is popular and common, but it is not based on
> radically new thinking as regards computer architecture.  Intel rather
> is very astute in utilizing old architectures in radically new ways.
> As inventive as such approaches are in my thinking it is akin to
> considering how many ways a paper clip can bend.
> 
> In fact, this is exactly why the modern market has developed into the
> weird reality we find ourselves in where Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony
> are vendors who each run the Cell in their own very powerful computing
> game systems but each system is "locked" in the sense that consumers
> cannot use Linux to utilize the flexibility of the Cell on any of
> these systems for themselves or their families.  This is great for
> producing strictly advanced gaming computers however it is terrible for
> those who want to use those same computers as working systems or family
> based learning and research systems which run independently designed
> projects.  In fact, families and individuals who purchase the Xbox, Wii
> and PS3 Slim now have to also purchase other computers as their
> work/research stations at home.  The consumer is paying very much more
> than twice over all these purchases.
> 
> A range of technical details exploring various views exists within the
> YDL Board for those who are interested in researching the topic.
> 
> > As much as I hate saying this, you may want to check out Ubuntu as an
> > alternative for a beginner for the following reason -  there appear to
> > be more distro specific 'current' books on the shelves of local
> > bookshops, and at a brief glance, their forums appear to be more
> > active. No doubt some questions and issues you will have will be ps3
> > specific but they have a forum for that too. People say ubuntu gnome
> > or kde (kubuntu) is a big of a memory hog so some say xubuntu (xfce
> > desktop) is possibly the best variant to install on the ps3.
> >       
> Ubuntu is a variant of Debian Linux.  Oddly enough however Ubuntu
> decided to cease officially supporting PowerPC systems quite sometime
> ago which means that help is entirely provided as it is by the
> "community" which really means whoever cares to do so which also means
> whenever someone has the opportunity to get to it. This is a really
> terrible development for beginners who need as much help as possible
> from professionals who are at the top of their game. Read more here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC
> 
> I have participated on this list long enough to remember a good number
> of people who not only were encouraging others to switch to Ubuntu but
> doing everything possible to "pull" people over there.  When Ubuntu
> made their choice those people who had left here either had to switch
> to Intel Linux or accept Ubuntu's terms.  I'm not aware of those who
> came back to participate on the YDL lists or the YDL Board again.  It
> was really pretty sad all the way around -- all that energy and
> enthusiasm wasted.
> 
> Oddly enough however professional support remains with Debian Linux
> itself although they always primarily supported x86 or Intel based
> Linux. See here:  http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/index.en.html
> 
> The professionals who developed YDL, Terra Soft Solutions (TSS), have
> always been at the top of the PowerPC development environment.  In the
> past, this was nearly the exclusive achievement of TSS; it may not be
> possible for any company to exclusively develop for one computer
> architecture any longer -- we will have to see how Fixstars (who
> inherited YDL from TSS) chooses to move in the current environment which
> exists.
> 
> Regardless what they do however the marketplace as far as the normal
> user is concerned is extremely expensive given what has taken place.
> 
> In many ways, the deal regarding the old PS3s remains a fast
> disappearing opportunity which would be wise to acquire as quickly as
> possible because once it is gone, that is pretty much it unless another
> company finds a means to re-introduce the Cell or another PowerPC
> system as something other than a game or cellphone computer.
> 
> May everyone have a wonderful celebration of these holidays and New
> Year.
> 
> 
> =========
> 
> Refranes/Popular sayings:
> The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
> There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.

From Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov  Fri Jan 15 07:10:27 2010
From: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov (Robert Black)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:10:27 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] usb drives
Message-ID: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>

Anybody know how to format a usb drive for use by YDL 6.2? Also, can  
this formatting be done on a Mac or a PC?

Robert A. Black

Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026

Ph:   (305) 361-4314
FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)

E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
(Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)





From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 09:00:12 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:00:12 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] usb drives
In-Reply-To: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>
References: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001141600y69397937sd65b1506a19830c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov> wrote:

> Anybody know how to format a usb drive for use by YDL 6.2? Also, can this
> formatting be done on a Mac or a PC?

As far as I know, your average usb key/stick is readable by YDL out of
the box. Most of them, as far as I know, use the FAT32 file system. As
a removable drive, there are advantages, I guess, to sticking with
this, ie most other machines will read FAT32, mac included. The only
demand I have that is not met by FAT32 is the file size limit (ie
approx 4Gb)  - I use usb devices to back up my entire PS3 (linux) HD.
So I actually have a couple of USB devices formatted to ext3. There
are also potential security issues but they do not apply in my
situation.

On a typical PS3 with current/near current firmware and YDL 6.2, the
first usb drive is /dev/sda and you'd use it like any other hard disk
device in linux ie fdisk it to partition first, and something like
mke2fs to put a filesystem on a partition. There is also gparted which
has a gui but I can't recall if it does the filesystem for you as
well, or if it is in YDL by default, actually. You may find this handy
if you don't like fdisk.

You can partition and format a usb drive that way on any other
usb-capable linux machine, I believe. I have certainly formatted a few
usb drives to ext3 on my x86 linux and used them on my PS3 to make
backups with no problems.

Macs (OSX) however do not have the ext3 filesystem. There is a kext
that exists which apparently allows you to read and write ext2 and
possibly read ext3 but I do not know how reliable this is or where
exactly to find it. I believe there is also a linux kernel module
which you can compile in to allow you to read the mac filesystem but
that again would be something I have not tried.

Once its all set up, YDL has an automount daemon running usually by
default which essentially makes using USB storage devices just plug
and play, basically, for simple things.

Bottom line: FAT32 usb devices (ie what they are by default usually)
may be all you need, but if large file sizes or more control is needed
you may need a unix type file system. Hope this helps.

> Robert A. Black

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Fri Jan 15 08:59:18 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:59:18 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
Message-ID: <20100114185918.70fecf2b@arakus>

From: rhubbell <Rhubbell at iHubbell.com>
Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
<yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com> 
To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com 
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies 
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:35 -0800 (14:42 EST) 
Mailer: Mail-2.1

Hi Robert:

In order to help you get a handle on the whole topic I went back to
recover a prior submission I made to this list addressing the
end-of-life for the Cell.  In fairness, Warren Nagourney, another
contributor to this list, mentioned it first.  However, he did not
provide a specific link or reference.  As I don't sit well with mere
unverified references I researched the subject matter in Ars Technica
and discovered an interview with an IBM rep. which discussed the whole
issue in detail.

The gist of the article clearly states that although the Cell has been
mothballed work is proceeding with a novel approach which integrates
what has been learned through working with it.  IBM is moving forward
with has been described technically as Heterogeneous Multicore systems
-- a basic overview of Multicore systems is found surprisingly here:
http://www.fixstars.com/en/multicore/processors.html.  The good news
then is that development from IBM will proceed along the lines of
something which acts or looks like the Toshiba SpursEngine or other
Heterogeneous design. When development proceeds as it surely will, then
will be the time to discover which version of Linux will run on it.  

There's a lot to be positive and excited about for persons interested
in programming advanced architectures.  The developments are more
interesting as elements of previously diverse and competing
architectures have become morphed into one which makes programming
these new heterogeneous systems easier, not harder.  Determining
whether we will see something progressing along the lines of the
Toshiba SpursEngine or Nvidia's Tesla design is hard to determine.
IBM's vision means more powerful and capable systems way beyond those
which exist currently and in the near future.

A good head's up for Apple users is that Apple is much more likely to
accept IBM's new direction in the effort to maintain Apple's edge as 
creative hardware and operating system par excellence.  Although many
here will wait and see what comes, a few will study what IBM does and
act accordingly.  I can guarantee, as a former Apple developer, that
Apple pros are studying IBM's efforts and progress as well.


On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:42 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100
> Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> > wrote: ...snip...
> > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet"
> > > other PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program
> > > using YDL on various hardware systems.  There's a lot a good
> > > people there who can help you move forward a lot faster than you
> > > going it solo.
> > ...
I hadn't heard that the CELL was end-of-lifed. I guess it's true.
But any idea why?  Who killed the Cell/BE?

Toshiba owns the chip fab? Have they announced anything?
I see the Zego vanished. What about the blades based on Cell/BE?

Collectivism at work? Too much compute power for the citizen?



-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
<yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com> To:
yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux
yellow dog manual for dummies Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:23:53 -0500

I thought you, Rob and interested others would find this article
interesting as it follows along the lines of what you stated earlier
with some different details.  

First the article:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/11/end-of-the-line-for-ibms-cell.ars

You'll note that future development and computers (including laptops -
Yippee!) will follow along an integrated or morphed design path which
implements both AMD/Intel with Cell/PowerPC aspects of handling complex
processing.  This could well mean systems which look more like the
system which is within the Toshiba Qosimo (referring to the Toshiba
SpursEngine).

I recall discussing details regarding how the Cell's technology was
morphed into the SPEC engine with some astute people at the YDL Board
awhile ago.  IBM's decision therefore kills the Cell as Cell, but not
what was derived by learning and working with it.

It is interesting that this movement forward comprises methods
previously exclusive to disparate architecture families (Intel v.
PowerPC); everything running today will need to be rewritten for those
newer systems as they will be unlike what has come before. This also
means something rather challenging which I hinted at previously, the
skills needed to program the new systems will require people familiar
programming for PowerPC/Cell and Intel systems.  A skill which remains
rare and becoming rarer still.  However those skills are transferable
and advantageous in leaping forward into seriously working with this new
hybrid.  The new hybrid will be further advanced than the system
within the Qosimo. 

As the hardware moving forward has changed so must Linux and commercial
operating systems.  YDL won't remain what it is; it will have to morph
into something else to meet what is coming.  That choice, if any is
made, is up to Fixstars.  I hope that they choose well so that they are
right in the thick of it.

The best to all...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:46:22 -0800
Warren Nagourney <warren at phys.washington.edu> wrote:

> That's very interesting, Rob. Were the apps compiled using the same  
> compilers (with the same degree of optimization) in both cases? Were  
> the time differences actual CPU time of just elapsed time? ...
> 


=========

Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Unsuscribe info:
http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to
Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100114/fcfa186f/attachment-0001.bin>

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 10:03:34 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:03:34 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
In-Reply-To: <2E4BEDCE-4494-462F-ADF6-78F11BCE16B4@phys.washington.edu>
References: <COL111-W1459CEEE0FA42725AEA47D85820@phx.gbl>
	<C8D1E231-3A71-4B72-93DA-34B9BD921B4C@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224164454.72f457d5@arakus>
	<657756DA-2EE3-4049-9BD3-D24346F30AC4@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224172801.33b9abc5@arakus>
	<70B6D0A8-E8AE-49F4-BCAE-20A2D0283721@phys.washington.edu>
	<3AAADF8F-375F-413D-B670-CD5583C8C5ED@travelinglightfarm.net>
	<5D14EF6B-34F7-411C-AF9D-4F6B3004D7DE@phys.washington.edu>
	<AF6574E8-AEB2-4EDD-9ACB-093F1967D087@travelinglightfarm.net>
	<2E4BEDCE-4494-462F-ADF6-78F11BCE16B4@phys.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001141703i168676f8q8b4625526f92d999@mail.gmail.com>

Eh.. I must have missed this thread. Bit late but I think I may know
what is up and perhaps it is actually due to the kernel. forks
possibly given the way Rob described the code he was running.

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Warren Nagourney
<warren at phys.washington.edu> wrote:

> That's very interesting, Rob. Were the apps compiled using the same
> compilers (with the same degree of optimization) in both cases? Were the
> time differences actual CPU time of just elapsed time?

... snip...

> Another difference might be the Mach kernel that OS X uses. This hasn't been
> talked about much, but there was a time when an OS with a monolithic kernel
> allowed things like context switches to take place much more quickly.
> Supposedly, the microkernel has been improved, but it is not clear how much.

Actually, I was once looking into Darwin/XNU. I had to make a few
syscalls (one of which was fork) to port something to x86 OSX. One guy
at Apple in no uncertain terms told me what I was doing was not the
right thing to do even though one would typically get away with it in
linux (and I can understand why - "We reserve the right to change the
syscalls etc..." Same thing applies in linux although it has remained
remarkably constant there).

One of the things I discovered during that brief foray into XNU was
that forks are MUCH slower in OSX than linux and I was I don't have
figures but there's quite a bit of mention made about that on

>>> On Dec 26, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Rob Sanders wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't done much with YDL in some time as I've changed jobs, but I'd
>>>> just like to chime in that several years ago that the PPC Linux's ( YDL for
>>>> Mac, full RedHat/SuSE on some IBM OpenPower720 hardware) was running rings
>>>> around the equivalent x86 -or- Alpha based platforms we were doing some work
>>>> on.  Tried to get my bosses & customers more interested in it and hit the
>>>> wall of 'but it isn't x86'.  <sigh>.  At the time, a direct comparison of
>>>> the *same* base code on a Mac XServe G5 running on YDL4 vice OS X 10.3 had
>>>> the YDL code twice as fast as the OS X code.  Lots of double precision
>>>> floating point math, and multiple processes (not threads) communicating via
>>>> shared memory.  We would routinely max out any box we were running on.

That being the case if Rob Sanders's code was indeed forking a lot,
some of the time could be accounted for here. Maybe doing stuff with
processes in general are slower on OSX .. that far to generalize is
probably premature without proper testing.

Oh and XNU is really not a microkernel. Apple may say 'kind of' but to
me, really if most of the stuff runs in the kernel in supervisor mode,
it's a monolithic kernel, no matter what its hyped at, and if it
doesn't then it isn't.

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Fri Jan 15 10:13:26 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:13:26 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] usb drives
In-Reply-To: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>
References: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <20100114201326.2de19d2a@arakus>

Hi Robert:

First you have to make sure that YDL sees it.  I'm using YDL 6.2,
but older versions of YDL should behave similarly.  I'll do an example
on my system using my portable usb drive as an example:

[aguila at arakus ~]$ su -
Password: 
[root at arakus ~]# parted /dev/sda
GNU Parted 1.8.1
Using /dev/sda
Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands.
(parted)
print                                                            

Model: SanDisk U3 Cruzer Micro (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 2046MB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos

Number  Start   End     Size    Type     File system  Flags
 1      32.3kB  2046MB  2046MB  primary  fat32        boot 

(parted)
quit Information: Don't forget to update /etc/fstab, if
necessary.             

[root at arakus ~]# 

Of course, you can format the drive with parted.  However after you do
that you next have to create the filesystem you can do:

man mkfs or man mkfs.ext3

to create the linux filesystem after having quit from parted.  If you
want to stay within parted you can do:

[root at arakus ~]# parted
GNU Parted 1.8.1
Using /dev/hda
Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands.
(parted)
help                                                             
  check NUMBER                             do a simple check on the
file system
  cp [FROM-DEVICE] FROM-NUMBER TO-NUMBER   copy file system to another
partition
  help [COMMAND]                           prints general help, or help
on
        COMMAND
  mklabel,mktable LABEL-TYPE               create a new disklabel
(partition
        table)
  mkfs NUMBER FS-TYPE                      make a FS-TYPE file system on
        partititon NUMBER
  mkpart PART-TYPE [FS-TYPE] START END     make a partition
  mkpartfs PART-TYPE FS-TYPE START END     make a partition with a file
system
  move NUMBER START END                    move partition NUMBER
  name NUMBER NAME                         name partition NUMBER as NAME
  print [free|NUMBER|all]                  display the partition table,
a
        partition, or all devices
  quit                                     exit program
  rescue START END                         rescue a lost partition near
START
        and END
  resize NUMBER START END                  resize partition NUMBER and
its file
        system
  rm NUMBER                                delete partition NUMBER
  select DEVICE                            choose the device to edit
  set NUMBER FLAG STATE                    change the FLAG on partition
NUMBER
  toggle [NUMBER [FLAG]]                   toggle the state of FLAG on
partition
        NUMBER
  unit UNIT                                set the default unit to UNIT
  version                                  displays the current version
of GNU
        Parted and copyright information
(parted)
quit                                                             
Information: Don't forget to update /etc/fstab, if
necessary.             

[root at arakus ~]# 

The command within parted which works to both partition and create a
linux filesystem is mkpartfs.  Unfortunately, as you see above that is
as much information gathered from parted regarding how to use mkpartfs
one will find.  Obviously, using the man and info pages regarding
mkfs.ext3 is more extensive.

You could format any drive within OS X or Windows, but neither can
create filesystems which Linux will understand.  You could install
applications which help OS X and Windows do that however, but it is
easier to be within Linux and format a drive for either OS X or Windows.

A good example is the sandisk drive, which I showed you above.  It is
accessible from within Linux (including YDL), OS X and Windows.  Note
that Linux (I'm using Linux and YDL to mean the same thing) sees the
sandisk as having an msdos partition table which is formatted as a
fat32 filesystem.

Hope the above helps.

All the best...


On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:10:27 -0500
Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov> wrote:

> Anybody know how to format a usb drive for use by YDL 6.2? Also, can  
> this formatting be done on a Mac or a PC?
> 
> Robert A. Black
> 
> Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
> NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026
> 
> Ph:   (305) 361-4314
> FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)
> 
> E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
> (Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info:
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to
> Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'



=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100114/0e1ea4bd/attachment.bin>

From Rhubbell at iHubbell.com  Fri Jan 15 10:18:07 2010
From: Rhubbell at iHubbell.com (rhubbell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:18:07 -0800
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
In-Reply-To: <20100114185918.70fecf2b@arakus>
References: <20100114185918.70fecf2b@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100114171807.f713008d.Rhubbell@iHubbell.com>

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:59:18 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> From: rhubbell <Rhubbell at iHubbell.com>
> Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
> <yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com> 
> To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com 
> Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies 
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:35 -0800 (14:42 EST) 
> Mailer: Mail-2.1
> 
> 
> In order to help you get a handle on the whole topic I went back to
> recover a prior submission I made to this list addressing the
> end-of-life for the Cell.  In fairness, Warren Nagourney, another
> contributor to this list, mentioned it first.  However, he did not
> provide a specific link or reference.  As I don't sit well with mere
> unverified references I researched the subject matter in Ars Technica
> and discovered an interview with an IBM rep. which discussed the whole
> issue in detail.
> 
> The gist of the article clearly states that although the Cell has been
> mothballed work is proceeding with a novel approach which integrates
> what has been learned through working with it.  IBM is moving forward
> with has been described technically as Heterogeneous Multicore systems
> -- a basic overview of Multicore systems is found surprisingly here:
> http://www.fixstars.com/en/multicore/processors.html.  The good news
> then is that development from IBM will proceed along the lines of
> something which acts or looks like the Toshiba SpursEngine or other
> Heterogeneous design. When development proceeds as it surely will, then
> will be the time to discover which version of Linux will run on it.  
> 
> There's a lot to be positive and excited about for persons interested
> in programming advanced architectures.  The developments are more
> interesting as elements of previously diverse and competing
> architectures have become morphed into one which makes programming
> these new heterogeneous systems easier, not harder.  Determining
> whether we will see something progressing along the lines of the
> Toshiba SpursEngine or Nvidia's Tesla design is hard to determine.
> IBM's vision means more powerful and capable systems way beyond those
> which exist currently and in the near future.
> 
> A good head's up for Apple users is that Apple is much more likely to
> accept IBM's new direction in the effort to maintain Apple's edge as 
> creative hardware and operating system par excellence.  Although many
> here will wait and see what comes, a few will study what IBM does and
> act accordingly.  I can guarantee, as a former Apple developer, that
> Apple pros are studying IBM's efforts and progress as well.
> 
> 

I can't keep up with the changes, thanks for distilling it down here.

I know that IBM has the multi-core advantage and they aren't going to be
losing that it seems. The tools for development hopefully will get enough
attention to make it so that they are picked up and used.  I know PS3 game
developers are still getting up to speed but making strides as the tools
mature.

How many cores did they get to with Cell/BE? It's not as if it's dead
tomorrow.  Sony's still selling PS3s and are planning to continue.
(heck they are stilling selling PS2s)

I bet they run the simulators of the new design on Cell/BE. (^:

From rarob at travelinglightfarm.net  Fri Jan 15 10:25:36 2010
From: rarob at travelinglightfarm.net (Rob Sanders)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:25:36 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
In-Reply-To: <1d5b8ec31001141703i168676f8q8b4625526f92d999@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL111-W1459CEEE0FA42725AEA47D85820@phx.gbl>
	<C8D1E231-3A71-4B72-93DA-34B9BD921B4C@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224164454.72f457d5@arakus>
	<657756DA-2EE3-4049-9BD3-D24346F30AC4@phys.washington.edu>
	<20091224172801.33b9abc5@arakus>
	<70B6D0A8-E8AE-49F4-BCAE-20A2D0283721@phys.washington.edu>
	<3AAADF8F-375F-413D-B670-CD5583C8C5ED@travelinglightfarm.net>
	<5D14EF6B-34F7-411C-AF9D-4F6B3004D7DE@phys.washington.edu>
	<AF6574E8-AEB2-4EDD-9ACB-093F1967D087@travelinglightfarm.net>
	<2E4BEDCE-4494-462F-ADF6-78F11BCE16B4@phys.washington.edu>
	<1d5b8ec31001141703i168676f8q8b4625526f92d999@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3C12CE6-A99B-4BC7-A3E1-364E684B965B@travelinglightfarm.net>

Some of the code forked, but only during the setup.  Once everything  
was 'running' each of the processes were persistent, communicating  
via shared memory with posix semaphores for keeping everyone in  
sync.  We had some problems with Solaris 9 or 10 where the shared  
memory overhead was killing performance.  Worked for a bit with the  
Sun folks and never did get it resolved.  If the process was 'self- 
contained' (ie - not sharing data with other processes) then OS X  
(remember, 10.3) held its own against Linux on the same hardware.

-Rob

On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:03 PM, Robert Spykerman wrote:

> Eh.. I must have missed this thread. Bit late but I think I may know
> what is up and perhaps it is actually due to the kernel. forks
> possibly given the way Rob described the code he was running.
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Warren Nagourney
> <warren at phys.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>> That's very interesting, Rob. Were the apps compiled using the same
>> compilers (with the same degree of optimization) in both cases?  
>> Were the
>> time differences actual CPU time of just elapsed time?
>
> ... snip...
>
>> Another difference might be the Mach kernel that OS X uses. This  
>> hasn't been
>> talked about much, but there was a time when an OS with a  
>> monolithic kernel
>> allowed things like context switches to take place much more quickly.
>> Supposedly, the microkernel has been improved, but it is not clear  
>> how much.
>
> Actually, I was once looking into Darwin/XNU. I had to make a few
> syscalls (one of which was fork) to port something to x86 OSX. One guy
> at Apple in no uncertain terms told me what I was doing was not the
> right thing to do even though one would typically get away with it in
> linux (and I can understand why - "We reserve the right to change the
> syscalls etc..." Same thing applies in linux although it has remained
> remarkably constant there).
>
> One of the things I discovered during that brief foray into XNU was
> that forks are MUCH slower in OSX than linux and I was I don't have
> figures but there's quite a bit of mention made about that on
>
>>>> On Dec 26, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Rob Sanders wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't done much with YDL in some time as I've changed jobs,  
>>>>> but I'd
>>>>> just like to chime in that several years ago that the PPC  
>>>>> Linux's ( YDL for
>>>>> Mac, full RedHat/SuSE on some IBM OpenPower720 hardware) was  
>>>>> running rings
>>>>> around the equivalent x86 -or- Alpha based platforms we were  
>>>>> doing some work
>>>>> on.  Tried to get my bosses & customers more interested in it  
>>>>> and hit the
>>>>> wall of 'but it isn't x86'.  <sigh>.  At the time, a direct  
>>>>> comparison of
>>>>> the *same* base code on a Mac XServe G5 running on YDL4 vice OS  
>>>>> X 10.3 had
>>>>> the YDL code twice as fast as the OS X code.  Lots of double  
>>>>> precision
>>>>> floating point math, and multiple processes (not threads)  
>>>>> communicating via
>>>>> shared memory.  We would routinely max out any box we were  
>>>>> running on.
>
> That being the case if Rob Sanders's code was indeed forking a lot,
> some of the time could be accounted for here. Maybe doing stuff with
> processes in general are slower on OSX .. that far to generalize is
> probably premature without proper testing.
>
> Oh and XNU is really not a microkernel. Apple may say 'kind of' but to
> me, really if most of the stuff runs in the kernel in supervisor mode,
> it's a monolithic kernel, no matter what its hyped at, and if it
> doesn't then it isn't.
>
> Robert Spykerman
>
> -- 
> chown -R us ./base
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'


From ydl-info at fixstars.com  Fri Jan 15 11:35:29 2010
From: ydl-info at fixstars.com (The YDL Team)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:35:29 +0900
Subject: [ydl-gen] Notice of Server Maintenance
Message-ID: <20100115113529.0554.7D2F32C6@fixstars.com>

Dear Yellow Dog Enthusiasts,

We will be performing scheduled maintenance on ydl.net server on 
January 24th 2010.

Maintenance schedule
---------------------

Time:		
	10:00PM January 24th - 2:00AM January 25th (PST).
	(January 25th 3:00PM - 7:00PM (JST))

Services affected:	
	YDL.net (web, email, blog, yum)
	lists.fixstars.com (mailing lists)
	yellwowdog-board.com (forum)


During the maintenance, services will not be available. 
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Thank you for your patience,
The YDL team.

--
Contact: ydl-info at fixstars.com


From ydl-info at fixstars.com  Fri Jan 15 11:26:28 2010
From: ydl-info at fixstars.com (The YDL Team)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:26:28 +0900
Subject: [ydl-gen] Notice of Server Maintenance
Message-ID: <20100115112628.054C.7D2F32C6@fixstars.com>

Dear Yellow Dog Enthusiasts,

We will be performing scheduled maintenance on ydl.net server on 
January 24th 2010.

Maintenance schedule
---------------------

Time:		
	10:00PM January 24th - 2:00AM January 25th (PST).
	(January 25th 3:00PM - 7:00PM (JST))

Services affected:	
	YDL.net (web, email, blog, yum)
	lists.fixstars.com (mailing lists)
	yellwowdog-board.com (forum)


During the maintenance, services will not be available. 
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Thank you for your patience,
The YDL team.

--
Contact: ydl-info at fixstars.com


From dcenteno at ydl.net  Fri Jan 15 14:45:24 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:24 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>

As usual Robert, the easy way to get what you want is the least obvious.

First, take the time to learn how to modify the standard application
called yum which YDL uses for updates, installations, etc.  The
detailed instructions are here:

http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3017

Take the time and make sure you understand what is there and then
modify yum accordingly.  Remember that when you come across a very long
explanation with a window you can scroll down within it for more
information within the YDL Board.  Pay attention to the section on YDL
6.2 and implement those recommendations.

After all that, I recommend that you include one more modification
which I'll share with you.  Include something called ps3bodega.  Why?
Because they already have the rpm and dependencies for IBM JRE which
you are having trouble with.

Here's a snapshot what yum refers to:

[aguila at arakus etc]$ cd yum.repos.d
[aguila at arakus yum.repos.d]$ ls
dribble.repo        ps3bodega.repo         yellowdog-updates.repo
fedora-extras.repo  yellowdog-base.repo
livna-stable.repo   yellowdog-extras.repo
[aguila at arakus yum.repos.d]$ 

Explanation:  Within the yum.repos.d directory are several files one of
which is ps3bodega.repo.  The ps3bodega.repo file consists of the
following:

[PS3Bodega]
name=PS3Bodega repo for Yellow Dog 6.2
baseurl=http://pleasantfiction.ipower.com/ps3linux/ps3bodega62/ppc/
gpgcheck=0
enabled=1


After all the above has been done then do:

#yum install "ibm*jre*" 

then the jre and whatever programs/dependencies it needs to run are all
found and installed by yum for you.  

Now regarding getting the java plugin to be seen and used by Firefox.
The instructions posted by Fixstars is old and hasn't been corrected.

Here's the shortcut after all the above has been completed find it
(libjavaplugin_oji.so) in YDL 6.2.  It should be here:

/opt/ibm/java*/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7

I don't like recommending links soft or hard as they can be hard to
remember and more problematic to change without affecting a Linux
installation.  An alternative is to use the copy command (cp) and copy
the desired plugin from the directory it was installed into and copy it
into the new location so that you see this:

/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libjavaplugin_oji.so


Once this last step is complete, I recommend a that you logout and
restart.  Once you are back in YDL Firefox will see and use the JRE.

All the best...

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:18:13 -0500
Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov> wrote:

> I too have so far failed to get a working Java on the PS3. I  
> downloaded the all files with the latest release from the IBM web  
> site, Tried to install them, & got a message that the JRE and SDK  
> needed another .so file. I found & downloaded that, re-installed the  
> SDK, & that worked. Tried to re-install the JRE, and it now claims
> to be incompatible with the latest SDK from IBM. A complete
> runaround. Result: No java capability w/Firefox on the PS-3.
> 
> YDL 6.2 (so far) fails to meet minimal functionality requirements
> for me, although I can check email with it.
> 
> Good thing this is at home, & not here at work.
> 
> Robert A. Black
> 
> Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
> NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026
> 
> Ph:   (305) 361-4314
> FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)
> 
> E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
> (Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info:
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to
> Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'



=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/d0247b91/attachment.bin>

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:23:07 -0700
Subject: [ydl-gen] usb drives
In-Reply-To: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>
References: <17E5260F-3BA5-4168-AD38-D08F12DB7293@noaa.gov>

Robert,

> Anybody know how to format a usb drive for use by YDL 6.2? Also,
> can this formatting be done on a Mac or a PC?

My experience is as follows:

	a) I have never found a USB drive, factory or consumer
	formatting that YDL cannot read by simply inserting
	and then double-clicking on the "Computer" icon on the
	Desktop.

	b) Fat32 is the most common by factories, and the most
	portable between multiple OSes.

	c) However, if you are using the USB drive for any sort
	of OS level backup or expansion, you may want to format
	your USB drive as a native ext3.

	d) If you are sharing the USB drive with OSX, you may
	want to format it with OSX's native Extended format in
	order that both YDL and OSX may share the files easily
	and retain all UNIX based file information (see bottom
	for more about OSX/ext3 file sharing).

	e) If you are using rsync to backup from your YDL box
	to a USB drive (as I do when I travel, keeping the USB bu
	in a sep coat pocket or wallet), fat32 will choke as the 
	rsync command attempts to set permissions for each file 
	transferred and fat32 does not support this -- yes, the 
	files will transfer but an error will spew with each and 
	every file (annoying!).

On a side note, as I have my internal drive split into 3 major 
partitions (YDL /, OSX /, and Data), I have "Data" formatted by OSX 
even though it is used primarily by YDL (I only reboot into OSX to 
watch .mov files).

In order that OSX and YDL may share these files seamlessly, I 
edited /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow to match my YDL user ID to that of 
Mac OSX (500 in YDL, 501 in OSX) and then chown kstaats:kstaats to 
all files in my /home/kstaats dir and wha-lah! I then 
edited /etc/fstab to auto-mount the Data partition. OSX and YDL share 
files without a glitch on the Data partition (thanks to Chris Murtagh 
for the original instructions on this process).

A bit more than you asked for, but hopefully this helps.


From pjwall at mac.com  Fri Jan 15 22:53:35 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:53:35 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <20100115135335.4ab621f6@powermacg5.ydl>

Hi Robert

> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:18:13 -0500
> Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov> wrote:
> I too have so far failed to get a working Java on the PS3. 

I have Java working with Firefox 3.0.12 supplied with YDL 6.2 and with a
rebuilt 3.5.7. I cannot get it to work successfully with Firefox 3.6rc1
- the java plugin registers in about:plugins but Firefox 3.6rc1 crashes
  when loading an applet. The main thing is that the plugin *does* work
  successfully with Firefox <= 3.5 :-)

> I downloaded the all files with the latest release from the IBM web  
> site, Tried to install them, & got a message that the JRE and SDK  
> needed another .so file. I found & downloaded that, re-installed the  
> SDK, & that worked. Tried to re-install the JRE, and it now claims
> to be incompatible with the latest SDK from IBM. A complete
> runaround. Result: No java capability w/Firefox on the PS-3.

To get your PS3 install up and running you should only need the file
ibm-java-ppc-jre-6.0-7.0.ppc.rpm from the IBM website or, as Derick
pointed out, from PS3 Bodega if you set up that repo. 

On a fresh ydl 6.2 install the only dependency that should be required
is compat-libstdc++-33. I forgot that the instructions on the Fixstars
website mention Firefox 1.5 and are therefore out of date. The
Firefox plugin directory should be /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins -
again, Again thanks to Derick :-)

Alternatively you can also put the plugin into your home directory
~/.mozilla/plugins.

Best regards



Pat

From smpl90s at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 23:38:18 2010
From: smpl90s at gmail.com (Young-Min Park)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:38:18 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
Message-ID: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>

Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.  This is an outrage to
everyone who as ever volunteered their time and expertise to open source
projects without pay.

-- 
Youngmin Park
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/b8ec2d08/attachment.html>

From pjwall at mac.com  Fri Jan 15 23:49:19 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:49:19 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:24 -0500
Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net> wrote:
 

Hi Derick

> Here's the shortcut after all the above has been completed find it
> (libjavaplugin_oji.so) in YDL 6.2.  It should be here:
> 
> /opt/ibm/java*/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7
> 
> I don't like recommending links soft or hard as they can be hard to
> remember and more problematic to change without affecting a Linux
> installation.  An alternative is to use the copy command (cp) and copy
> the desired plugin from the directory it was installed into and copy
> it into the new location so that you see this:
> 
> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libjavaplugin_oji.so
>

As far as I know it is recommended for the JRE browser plugin that you
use a symbolic link only to libjavaplugin_oji.so although other
plugins such as gnash and vlc can be copied to the plugins folder.

see http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/linux.html#Java

I found that if I copied libjavaplugin_oji.so it didn't register
with Firefox and no applets would be displayed but it didn't
actually cause a crash as indicated in the link above.

All the best


Pat

From pjwall at mac.com  Sat Jan 16 00:02:13 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:02:13 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:49:19 +0000
Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:24 -0500
> Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net> wrote:
>  
> 
> Hi Derick
> 
> > Here's the shortcut after all the above has been completed find it
> > (libjavaplugin_oji.so) in YDL 6.2.  It should be here:
> > 
> > /opt/ibm/java*/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7
> > 
> > I don't like recommending links soft or hard as they can be hard to
> > remember and more problematic to change without affecting a Linux
> > installation.  An alternative is to use the copy command (cp) and
> > copy the desired plugin from the directory it was installed into
> > and copy it into the new location so that you see this:
> > 
> > /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libjavaplugin_oji.so
> >
> 
> As far as I know it is recommended for the JRE browser plugin that you
> use a symbolic link only to libjavaplugin_oji.so although other
> plugins such as gnash and vlc can be copied to the plugins folder.
> 
> see http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/linux.html#Java
> 
> I found that if I copied libjavaplugin_oji.so it didn't register
> with Firefox and no applets would be displayed but it didn't
> actually cause a crash as indicated in the link above.

Firefox crashing may be related to the Sun's JRE
plugin only. According to the IBM sdkandruntimeguide.lnx.htm:

"Installing the Java plug-in

To install the Java plug-in, symbolically link it to the plug-in
directory for your browser.

The Java plug-in is based on Mozilla's Open JVM Integration initiative,
which is used with most Mozilla products and derivatives, including
Firefox.

You must symbolically link the plug-in, rather than copy it, so that
the browser and plug-in can locate the JVM."

Presumably if it doesn't register in the first instance it can't crash
Firefox.

> 
> All the best
> 
> 
> Pat
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info:
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to
> Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'


Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:31:34 -0700
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
In-Reply-To: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday 15 January 2010 07:38, Young-Min Park wrote:
> Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.  This is an
> outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and
> expertise to open source projects without pay.

I recommend you review free download from the public mirrors:
http://ydl.net/support/downloads/

YDL has been freely available since inception in the spring of 1999.

DVDs and private download from a dedicated, high-bandwidth server were 
made available as a paid product for the sake of simple installation, 
a choice made by the customer.


From elmany at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 00:34:39 2010
From: elmany at gmail.com (many)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:34:39 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d9d5e5f71001150734r6045e0a2wf86dfb2dd010b4c0@mail.gmail.com>

Besides, OpenSource does not is equal to free.

> On Friday 15 January 2010 07:38, Young-Min Park wrote:
>> Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free. ?This is an
>> outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and
>> expertise to open source projects without pay.
>
> I recommend you review free download from the public mirrors:
> http://ydl.net/support/downloads/
>
> YDL has been freely available since inception in the spring of 1999.
>
> DVDs and private download from a dedicated, high-bandwidth server were
> made available as a paid product for the sake of simple installation,
> a choice made by the customer.
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try ?'&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
>



-- 
"Do the talk, do the walk"

From Barry.Smith at delta.com  Sat Jan 16 00:43:52 2010
From: Barry.Smith at delta.com (Smith, Barry)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:43:52 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC4B4616DF20B04B99E3E0BA01052DFC06A3EF8C@satlrccdlmb571.delta.rl.delta.com>

All you base are belong to us

 

-----Original Message-----
From: yellowdog-general-bounces at lists.fixstars.com [mailto:yellowdog-general-bounces at lists.fixstars.com] On Behalf Of Kai Staats
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:32 AM
To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] pathetic

On Friday 15 January 2010 07:38, Young-Min Park wrote:
> Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.  This is an
> outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and
> expertise to open source projects without pay.

I recommend you review free download from the public mirrors:
http://ydl.net/support/downloads/

YDL has been freely available since inception in the spring of 1999.

DVDs and private download from a dedicated, high-bandwidth server were 
made available as a paid product for the sake of simple installation, 
a choice made by the customer.

_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'

From tomekpilot at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 16 00:55:02 2010
From: tomekpilot at yahoo.com (tomasz brymora)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:55:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
Message-ID: <382812.81359.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

.... pathetic? Trying to collect some clams in exchange for the offerings seems perfectly legit. 

What I'd call pathetic is condemning old, perfectly functioning hardware to the dumps Mr. S J style. YDL is the only viable thing that keeps a lot of machines from being totally useless.

Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] pathetic
To: "Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics" <yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com>
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 10:31 AM

On Friday 15 January 2010 07:38, Young-Min Park wrote:
> Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.? This is an
> outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and
> expertise to open source projects without pay.

I recommend you review free download from the public mirrors:
http://ydl.net/support/downloads/

YDL has been freely available since inception in the spring of 1999.

DVDs and private download from a dedicated, high-bandwidth server were 
made available as a paid product for the sake of simple installation, 
a choice made by the customer.

_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
HINT: to Google archives, try? '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/f8dd6d72/attachment.html>

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sat Jan 16 01:03:56 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:03:56 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100115110356.68181639@arakus>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:02:13 +0000
Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:49:19 +0000
> Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:24 -0500
> > Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net> wrote:
> >  
> > 
...
> You must symbolically link the plug-in, rather than copy it, so that
> the browser and plug-in can locate the JVM."
> 
> Presumably if it doesn't register in the first instance it can't crash
> Firefox.
> 

Hi Pat, 

I appreciate your clarification.  However, I've not experienced any
crashes or difficulties Firefox within YDL 6.2 resulting from the method
I posted.  Indeed, despite the advice recommending a symbolic or soft
link I was able to play on my old favorite game site which is very java
intensive using the method I posted previously.

The version of Firefox I'm using is the standard release which was
installed in YDL 6.2. 

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/3e6c6dc1/attachment.bin>

From pjwall at mac.com  Sat Jan 16 01:16:34 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:16:34 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115110356.68181639@arakus>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115110356.68181639@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100115161634.472e358b@powermacg5.ydl>


> Hi Pat, 
> 
> I appreciate your clarification.  However, I've not experienced any
> crashes or difficulties Firefox within YDL 6.2 resulting from the
> method I posted.  Indeed, despite the advice recommending a symbolic
> or soft link I was able to play on my old favorite game site which is
> very java intensive using the method I posted previously.
> 
> The version of Firefox I'm using is the standard release which was
> installed in YDL 6.2. 
>

Hi Derick

That's very interesting. I just couldn't get the plugin to register by
cp'ing, other than that, no adverse effects. Must be something
peculiar to my setup.

Anyway I think I better stop tinkering now before I break something ;-)

All the best


Pat


From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sat Jan 16 02:26:59 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:26:59 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
In-Reply-To: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100115122659.78a7df60@arakus>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:38:18 -0500
Young-Min Park <smpl90s at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.  This is an
> outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and expertise
> to open source projects without pay.
> 

Hi Park:

Judging from your comment, it appears there is some misunderstanding of
what is offered as a commercial service/product and what is open source.
Briefly, there are multiple definitions of open source around the world
which are explained here:

http://www.opensource.org/

If you can take the time to explore the various licenses and kinds of
open source commitments which many companies adhere to and expect
their users to adhere to as well, you'll observe the very large breadth
or gap of intention and meaning of all these various licenses -- it is
an education to explore as much of them as possible. Although various
companies do offer some of their software products as "open source"
they define the conditions they choose to do so and those conditions
express widely differing definitions, and circumstances regarding when
such a process will be done.  The expectations and obligations by those
using their software also differ.  Some companies state very clearly
that if the reader doesn't agree to the terms of what the company or
project is offering, then one must not use the software.

Some of what companies and projects offer is committed to open source
only after a period of time and/or under particular circumstances.  PGP
(pgp.com), for instance, makes their contribution in two different
ways.  They offer a trial software product for Windows and OS X which
after 30 days provides some, not all the functions, of their commercial
product.  In other words, the trial version after 30 days, functions as
"free" software has less functionality of the trial version, but
remains quite useful as free software. They also contribute to the
GnuGP project so that gpg2 can run something called OpenPGP or OpenGP
which allows for public keys created with the trial or free version or
other commercial products of PGP to be understood by gpg2.

Individuals and companies have the right to determine the terms and
conditions of their employment.  This means also that a person (an
individual human or commercial entity) can freely determine when they
will charge for services for their product and/or when they will
contribute to open source or other community based or free effort.

The obligation for everyone however is to become clearer regarding
which licenses and commercial/non-commercial obligations or
expectations one is agreeing to.

I prefer an agreement based on a handshake.  We are all a long way from
those days, especially as our current transactions of services span
across the planet.  What we can do however is to clarify the terms and
means of our relationships to one another which although challenging to
examine and consider -- in the long run can help smooth the means for
cooperation.

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/6e594fb0/attachment.bin>

From John.A.Brickman at l-3com.com  Sat Jan 16 04:32:04 2010
From: John.A.Brickman at l-3com.com (John.A.Brickman at l-3com.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:32:04 -0600
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation of Cell SDK
Message-ID: <F02D207209B48C4B9480A76F607CE19C1B3CD32A@GVLMAIL01.is.l-3com.com>

Is the IBM SDK 3.1 supposed to install with a fresh install of YDL 6.2
on the PS3.

I just installed the OS, but see nothing in the /opt/cell directory.

 

I assume I can use the latest IBM SDK on the PS3 for a standalone
development/runtime environment?

Thanks - John Brickman

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/27050552/attachment-0001.html>

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sat Jan 16 04:48:03 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:48:03 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115161634.472e358b@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115110356.68181639@arakus>
	<20100115161634.472e358b@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100115144803.328fb292@arakus>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:16:34 +0000
Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> > Hi Pat, 
> > 
> > I appreciate your clarification. ...
> 
> Hi Derick
> 
> That's very interesting. I just couldn't get the plugin to register by
> cp'ing, other than that, no adverse effects. Must be something
> peculiar to my setup.
> 
> Anyway I think I better stop tinkering now before I break
> something ;-)
> 
> All the best
> 
> 
> Pat

Hi Pat!

As for me, I'll never stop tinkering.

Your experience got me thinking and I decided to backtrack what I did
do as it appears my experience is completely different from what you
and others reported.  Well I did discover what I did, however I didn't
use the copy (cp) command -- I used move (mv) instead.  

Here's the actual execution:

[aguila at arakus ~]$ sudo mv ./lib*so /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins

Explanation:  I was within the directory where the java plugin existed
which is: /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7.  So the above was
executed from within the ns7 directory.  I found something interesting
which does apply which you can read yourself within YDL 6.2 by doing:

$ info mv

Here's the part which interests me which may be the root of explaining
why my approach (using mv, not cp) works.  

Note:
`mv' can move any type of file from one file system to another.
Prior to version `4.0' of the fileutils, `mv' could move only regular
files between file systems.  For example, now `mv' can move an entire
directory hierarchy including special device files from one partition
to another.  It first uses some of the same code that's used by `cp -a'
to copy the requested directories and files, then (assuming the copy
succeeded) it removes the originals. ...

What is interesting is that the *.so remains in the ns7 directory and
mv executed the function implementing "some of the same code used by
"cp -a".  This strategy may have created an unintended side effect; I
noticed that mv did not erase the original location of *.so but
created in fact a link to *.so where it actually resides in the ns7
directory! The reason for this may be the result of how I used mv as
opposed to the way it was designed to be used.  I'll send a query to
the programmers who created mv and present to them the details I'm
omitting here.

Interesting how we began talking about tinkering and here we are.

All the best...
=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/d9a3a59c/attachment.bin>

From significant.bit at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 09:39:46 2010
From: significant.bit at gmail.com (significant.bit at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:39:46 -0600
Subject: [ydl-gen] (not at all) pathetic
In-Reply-To: <382812.81359.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b510ada.04c2f10a.0c42.ffffd492@mx.google.com>

As Tomasz says, there's nothing fishy about charging for an open-source product. Especially since terra soft and now fixstars only charge for early and convenient access, also offering YDL via free download.

I purchased YDL 2.0 back in my modem days, got discs, maybe a binder, and some rad stickers. Got version 5 from Kai at a?power.org?gathering (thanks, btw!), and downloaded their latest release. That's an amazing value for $50 paid ten years ago!

On the other partition, I've had to pay for Mac OS 8.5, 9.0, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, and the 3.0 software for iPod Touch. All together around $400 spread across ten years, not a steal but still worth the price.

Now that the exhaustive (and exhausting) value comparison is over, I must take issue with some words in that same post:

My main development machine is a PowerBook running Mac OS 10.5. Even though Apple has moved on to its more profitable customers (the ones who call it OS "ex" because they never heard of OS "nine"), I have never felt the need to drive the PowerBook to the dump.

Our main PowerPC test machine is a hot-rod G4 Quicksilver running the latest YDL, Mac OS 10.5, 10.4, 9.2, even a tweaked 8.6. If fate chose any one of these OSes and destroyed the others, the computer would still be very far from useless.

I must agree that regular users of any Mac OS prior to 10.4 are missing out on some great advances. But that was released five years ago and runs great on machines from ten years ago. As more years go by, and we continue to find new uses for computers, the latest PowerPC release of Mac OS will start to feel dated, just as trying to browse the web from Mac OS 9 feels today.

So when that day comes, YDL may very well be the only viable option.?I'm rooting for it, as I love Sony's PS3, Apple's systems, and being able to write PowerPC code in a nice modern?OS.

Mike Erwin
-- Sent from my Palm Pr?
tomasz brymora wrote:

.. pathetic? Trying to collect some clams in exchange for the offerings seems perfectly legit. 

What I'd call pathetic is condemning old, perfectly functioning hardware to the dumps Mr. S J style. YDL is the only viable thing that keeps a lot of machines from being totally useless.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/2f39adb2/attachment.html>

From tomekpilot at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 16 12:18:15 2010
From: tomekpilot at yahoo.com (tomasz brymora)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:18:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ydl-gen] (not at all) pathetic
In-Reply-To: <4b510ada.04c2f10a.0c42.ffffd492@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <25284.6922.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

.... very good point Mike.
What I really meant to say, is that I'd love to see something like PuppyLinux or DamnSamllLinux equivalent for the older hardware. By older I mean G3 ( as in iMac rev. A or B ). Something REALLY slimmed down. My graphite iBook 466 just went belly up for good, and it was a champ to the end :-( 

iMac G3 is still kicking strong, will have to get YDL back on it. My kid wanted to use it for a while, so I put 10.3 on it, but "it's all MINE again" :-)

--- On Fri, 1/15/10, significant.bit at gmail.com <significant.bit at gmail.com> wrote:

From: significant.bit at gmail.com <significant.bit at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] (not at all) pathetic
To: "Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics" <yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com>
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 7:39 PM

As Tomasz says, there's nothing fishy about charging for an open-source product. Especially since terra soft and now fixstars only charge for early and convenient access, also offering YDL via free download.

I purchased YDL 2.0 back in my modem days, got discs, maybe a binder, and some rad stickers. Got version 5 from Kai at a?power.org?gathering (thanks, btw!), and downloaded their latest release. That's an amazing value for $50 paid ten years ago!

On the other partition, I've had to pay for Mac OS 8.5, 9.0, 10.3, 10.4, 10..5, and the 3.0 software for iPod Touch. All together around $400 spread across ten years, not a steal but still worth the price.

Now that the exhaustive (and exhausting) value comparison is over, I must take issue with some words in that same post:

My main development machine is a PowerBook running Mac OS 10.5. Even though Apple has moved on to its more profitable customers (the ones who call it OS "ex" because they never heard of OS "nine"), I have never felt the need to drive the PowerBook to the dump.

Our main PowerPC test machine is a hot-rod G4 Quicksilver running the latest YDL, Mac OS 10.5, 10.4, 9.2, even a tweaked 8.6. If fate chose any one of these OSes and destroyed the others, the computer would still be very far from useless.

I must agree that regular users of any Mac OS prior to 10.4 are missing out on some great advances. But that was released five years ago and runs great on machines from ten years ago. As more years go by, and we continue to find new uses for computers, the latest PowerPC release of Mac OS will start to feel dated, just as trying to browse the web from Mac OS 9 feels today.

So when that day comes, YDL may very well be the only viable option.?I'm rooting for it, as I love Sony's PS3, Apple's systems, and being able to write PowerPC code in a nice modern?OS.

Mike Erwin
-- Sent from my Palm Pr?
tomasz brymora wrote:

.... pathetic? Trying to collect some clams in exchange for the offerings seems perfectly legit. 

What I'd call pathetic is condemning old, perfectly functioning hardware to the dumps Mr. S J style. YDL is the only viable thing that keeps a lot of machines from being totally useless.


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
HINT: to Google archives, try? '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100115/b841d9dc/attachment.html>

From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Sat Jan 16 14:16:28 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:16:28 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error
Message-ID: <4B514BAC.9060305@alice.it>

Hello everyone ! Some time ago, I had a blackout while YDL 6.2 was 
running. Since then, I get this message after starting udev: error at "! 
/etc/X11/Xmodmap". I'm running YDL on a PS3 40 GB, which I expanded to 
250 GB, European version, with GameOS 3.10.  After  giving this error, 
everything works fine.  Can anyone tell me what this message means and 
how to fix it ?
Keep in mind that I'm a newcomer to Linux, so please explain 
straightforward.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Angelo.

From significant.bit at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 18:18:04 2010
From: significant.bit at gmail.com (significant.bit at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:18:04 -0600
Subject: [ydl-gen] Yellow Pup Linux
In-Reply-To: <25284.6922.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b518451.1ac1f10a.620b.ffffc0d0@mx.google.com>

Glad to hear you're still enjoying an early iMac -- my rev.a has a zapped flyback transformer, but another friend has kept his running to this?day. 

I would also love a slim OS for these older systems, one that uses all the hardware to its advantage, and doesn't have any code for hardware that isn't there.

In one?way we're lucky Apple stepped away from PowerPC: all that energy spent keeping up with their latest hardware can now be focused on the known set of?PowerMacs. YDL?supports machines from other vendors, but a less ambitious OS could consider just the plentiful new world Macintoshes. Each machine has one of only 3 processor types, usually single, sometimes dual, occasionally quad. Wait... that's simply Yellow Dog without PS3, blade, embedded, etc.

More like what you said, a G3 focused version would be awesome, forget about the already well-served G4 and newer. Even better would be an OS for just the G3 iMacs and some portables, since their hardware is similar and known in advance (single processor, usb, firewire, ati rage graphics, airport).

Available memory is something else to look out for in a lean version, as we got by on less when the G3s were new. That first iMac can handle 384MB (a very decent baseline), but of course shipped with only 32MB. When I upped mine to 160MB, Photoshop, Pixels3D, and Unreal became very happy. Today's software would say "is that all?"

On that note, it's amazing how well the full YDL runs on the memory-limited PS3.

I've got enough development projects to keep me busy for the next three years, but a modern OS for G3 iMacs sounds like a lot of fun. They'll still be old then, right?

Mike Erwin
-- Sent from my Palm Pr?
tomasz brymora wrote:

I'd love to see something like PuppyLinux or DamnSamllLinux equivalent for the older hardware. By older I mean G3 ( as in iMac rev.. A or B ). Something REALLY slimmed down.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100116/827953ad/attachment-0001.html>

From cwtucker at ironcomm.com  Sun Jan 17 00:04:33 2010
From: cwtucker at ironcomm.com (Chris W Tucker)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:04:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [ydl-gen] Yellow Pup Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b518451.1ac1f10a.620b.ffffc0d0@mx.google.com>
References: <4b518451.1ac1f10a.620b.ffffc0d0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001160859180.4728@localhost.localdomain>




On Sat, 16 Jan 2010, significant.bit at gmail.com wrote:

> Glad to hear you're still enjoying an early iMac -- my rev.a has a zapped flyback transformer, but another friend has kept his running to this?day.
>
> I would also love a slim OS for these older systems, one that uses all the hardware to its advantage, and doesn't have any code for hardware that isn't there.
>
> More like what you said, a G3 focused version would be awesome, forget about the already well-served G4 and newer. Even better would be an OS for just the G3 iMacs and some portables, since their hardware is similar and known in advance (single processor, usb, firewire, ati rage graphics, airport).


I think this is a great idea for a rebuild, respin or whatever phrase you 
prefer. An optimized build, much like some of the browsers that have been 
optimized for G3, G4 respectively.

I love my Lombard, Pismo, Quicksilver, B&Ws. There is a lot of life in 
them yet.

Would happily contribute to the project.
Chris

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sun Jan 17 06:22:04 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:22:04 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error
In-Reply-To: <4B514BAC.9060305@alice.it>
References: <4B514BAC.9060305@alice.it>
Message-ID: <20100116162204.227a722f@arakus>

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:16:28 +0100
angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it> wrote:

> Hello everyone ! Some time ago, I had a blackout while YDL 6.2 was 
> running. Since then, I get this message after starting udev: error at
> "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". I'm running YDL on a PS3 40 GB, which I
> expanded to 250 GB, European version, with GameOS 3.10.  After
> giving this error, everything works fine.  Can anyone tell me what
> this message means and how to fix it ?
> Keep in mind that I'm a newcomer to Linux, so please explain 
> straightforward.
> Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Angelo.

Buon Jorno, Angelo!!

One very simple approach which could correct the complaint you are
getting from udev, is to check if you are using a standard USB keyboard
or mouse which YDL recognizes and/or is designed to work with.  Let this
be your first step.

Read about this here:
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/support/hardware/sony.shtml

Please note that within the PS3 section under 2, you will see:

"The Bluetooth keyboard and mouse may work under Linux, but will require
additional configuration. We recommend a USB keyboard and mouse or USB
to Bluetooth adapter (dongle)."

The reason the above is important is that the udev application was built
into the Linux kernel (all versions from kernel 2.6 forward) to replace
something called devfs, another kernel tool.  The purpose of udev is
to control peripheral devices - mostly keyboards and mice.

Every Linux distribution -- Debian, Fedora, YDL and other distributions
determine for themselves when they build their own standard kernel which
applications such as udev, will be automatically used (turned on or
off) by that distribution when they compile their kernel.

You, as an individual, can download and build (compile) -- solid
programming skills required -- your own kernel to use and decide for
yourself whether udev is on or off according to your own needs.  The
entire process is not simple, unfortunately.  

In case the simple act of replacing your keyboard with a USB keyboard
and USB based mouse is not possible what follows are links to
instructions and references for you to use to correct the code or
instructions udev utilizes and refers to.  This is not simple but it is
what is available that I could gather to address this particular
problem.  Here goes:

http://webpages.charter.net/decibelshelp/LinuxHelp_UDEVPrimer.html#UDEV

http://blog.interlinked.org/tutorials/linux.html

When you are ready to create your own rules for udev to follow refer to
this link (Note: Look for UDEV in the middle of the webpage):

http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Acer_Travelmate_803LCi

All the best...

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100116/70c02b5e/attachment.bin>

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Sun Jan 17 06:54:00 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:54:00 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Installation of Cell SDK
In-Reply-To: <F02D207209B48C4B9480A76F607CE19C1B3CD32A@GVLMAIL01.is.l-3com.com>
References: <F02D207209B48C4B9480A76F607CE19C1B3CD32A@GVLMAIL01.is.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <20100116165400.0184b94e@arakus>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:32:04 -0600
John.A.Brickman at l-3com.com wrote:

> Is the IBM SDK 3.1 supposed to install with a fresh install of YDL 6.2
> on the PS3.
> 
> I just installed the OS, but see nothing in the /opt/cell directory.
> 
>  
> 
> I assume I can use the latest IBM SDK on the PS3 for a standalone
> development/runtime environment?
> 
> Thanks - John Brickman

From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
Cc: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:45:24 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
 <yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com>
Sender: yellowdog-general-bounces at lists.fixstars.com
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.4; powerpc-redhat-linux-gnu)

As usual Robert, the easy way to get what you want is the least obvious.

First, take the time to learn how to modify the standard application
called yum which YDL uses for updates, installations, etc.  The
detailed instructions are here:

http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3017

Take the time and make sure you understand what is there and then
modify yum accordingly.  Remember that when you come across a very long
explanation with a window you can scroll down within it for more
information within the YDL Board.  Pay attention to the section on YDL
6.2 and implement those recommendations.

After all that, I recommend that you include one more modification
which I'll share with you.  Include something called ps3bodega.  Why?
Because they already have the rpm and dependencies for IBM JRE which
you are having trouble with.

Here's a snapshot what yum refers to:

[aguila at arakus etc]$ cd yum.repos.d
[aguila at arakus yum.repos.d]$ ls
dribble.repo        ps3bodega.repo         yellowdog-updates.repo
fedora-extras.repo  yellowdog-base.repo
livna-stable.repo   yellowdog-extras.repo
[aguila at arakus yum.repos.d]$ 

Explanation:  Within the yum.repos.d directory are several files one of
which is ps3bodega.repo.  The ps3bodega.repo file consists of the
following:

[PS3Bodega]
name=PS3Bodega repo for Yellow Dog 6.2
baseurl=http://pleasantfiction.ipower.com/ps3linux/ps3bodega62/ppc/
gpgcheck=0
enabled=1


After all the above has been done then do:

#yum install "ibm*jre*" 

then the jre and whatever programs/dependencies it needs to run are all
found and installed by yum for you.  

Now regarding getting the java plugin to be seen and used by Firefox.
The instructions posted by Fixstars is old and hasn't been corrected.

Here's the shortcut after all the above has been completed find it
(libjavaplugin_oji.so) in YDL 6.2.  It should be here:

/opt/ibm/java*/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7

It is recommended that you create soft or symbolic links.  Read this:

http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/linux.html#Java

Regarding how to do this within Linux the instructions I found useful
are here:

http://uw714doc.sco.com/en/SDK_sysprog/_Using_Symbolic_Links.html

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100116/297d8d34/attachment.bin>

From sjh at netspace.net.au  Sun Jan 17 07:28:55 2010
From: sjh at netspace.net.au (Stephen Harker)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 09:28:55 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100116222855.GA5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 03:02:13PM +0000, Pat Wall wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:49:19 +0000
> Pat Wall <pjwall at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Firefox crashing may be related to the Sun's JRE
> plugin only. According to the IBM sdkandruntimeguide.lnx.htm:

I am on leave and not reading this list frequently (I can't get the
mail from my ADFA account when out of campus except through a webmail
interface).  On my iBook G4, running Firefox 3.6b5 there is no crash
using the java.com version test.  I do get an error message, which is
shown below:

>=========================================================
Java Plug-in 1.6.0
Using JRE version pxp3260sr6-20090925_01 (SR6) IBM J9 VM
User home directory = /home/sjh
----------------------------------------------------
c:   clear console window
f:   finalize objects on finalization queue
g:   garbage collect
h:   display this help message
l:   dump classloader list
m:   print memory usage
o:   trigger logging
q:   hide console
r:   reload policy configuration
s:   dump system and deployment properties
t:   dump thread list
v:   dump thread stack
x:   clear classloader cache
0-5: set trace level to <n>
----------------------------------------------------


Reading certificates from 11 http://www.java.com/applet/TestVM2.jar | /home/sjh/.java/deployment/cache/6.0/50/75db0232-4f384094.idx
java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException
	at java.lang.String.substring(String.java:1092)
	at testvm2.Main.init(Main.java:92)
	at sun.plugin2.applet.Plugin2Manager$AppletExecutionRunnable.run(Plugin2Manager.java:1540)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:736)
Exception: java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException
java.lang.NullPointerException
	at testvm2.Main.start(Main.java:150)
	at sun.plugin2.applet.Plugin2Manager$AppletExecutionRunnable.run(Plugin2Manager.java:1603)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:736)
Exception: java.lang.NullPointerException
>======================================================

For what it may be worth the version tester at
http://www.javatester.org/version.html works without problems.

-- 
Stephen Harker                           s.harker at adfa.edu.au
PEMS                http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW at ADFA

From sjh at adfa.edu.au  Sun Jan 17 07:47:34 2010
From: sjh at adfa.edu.au (Stephen Harker)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 09:47:34 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <20100116224734.GB5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>

Hi Pat,

> I finally got around to building firefox 3.6rc1 and many thanks for
> pointing out how to get the java plugin recognised. I found that in my
> own case I can see it in about:plugins but when I try and display any
> applet (such as java.con version test) firefox crashes with the
> error below and I was wondering if anyone has seen anything similar on
> YDL? (haven't investigated further and just had a quick google)

To follow up from my other post, I have tried a number of Java applets
on my iBook using Firefox 3.6b5 and the latest IBM Java on my iBook.
Except for the error message with the java.com version test all others
have worked correctly as far as I can tell.  Try using at least
Firefox 3.6b5 (or the release candidate).  Given the change to the new
plugin format there may be some bugs in 3.6b1 that are not there in
the later versions.  I doubt that it is my use of an iBook versus a
PS3.

-- 
Stephen Harker                           s.harker at adfa.edu.au
PEMS                http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW at ADFA
 

From sjh at adfa.edu.au  Sun Jan 17 07:59:09 2010
From: sjh at adfa.edu.au (Stephen Harker)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 09:59:09 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Yellow Pup Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b518451.1ac1f10a.620b.ffffc0d0@mx.google.com>
References: <25284.6922.qm@web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<4b518451.1ac1f10a.620b.ffffc0d0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20100116225909.GC5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>

> Glad to hear you're still enjoying an early iMac -- my rev.a has a
> zapped flyback transformer, but another friend has kept his running
> to this?day.

Apart from running YDL 6.2 on my iBook G4, I am also running YDL 6.1
on my 7600/200 (an oldworld machine).  

> Available memory is something else to look out for in a lean
> version, as we got by on less when the G3s were new. That first iMac
> can handle 384MB (a very decent baseline), but of course shipped
> with only 32MB. When I upped mine to 160MB, Photoshop, Pixels3D, and
> Unreal became very happy. Today's software would say "is that all?"

One nice thing about the 7600/7500/7300 was that you can get up to 1GB
in them (but it is very slow, due to the 50 Hz bus on my machine).  I
get good disk speed using an Initio Miles2 (a100u2w) card and booting
from a Seagate 36GB Cheetah (35 MB/sec) and using a USB2/FW card to
access larger external storage.  For most purposes I find the old
hardware fine, though it would not suffice for many people's uses.  It
is always good to hear of people still running old machines and
getting good use out of them.  

-- 
Stephen Harker                           s.harker at adfa.edu.au
PEMS                http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW at ADFA

From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Sun Jan 17 16:44:09 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 08:44:09 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error
Message-ID: <4B52BFC9.8060006@alice.it>

Dear Derick, thank you very much for the quick reply. The fact is that I 
previously used the same USB keyboard and USB mouse and I hadn't any 
problem, it recognizes the keyboard saying the model and it uses a 
standard driver common for all mice. The problem arose only after the 
blackout. Another peculiarity is that I connect both keyboard and mouse 
to a USB hub in port 1, in order to have a USB port free for something 
else. Greetings, Angelo.

From pjwall at mac.com  Sun Jan 17 22:08:32 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:08:32 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100116224734.GB5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>
	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>
	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>
	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100116224734.GB5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20100117130832.6b8c6870@powermacg5.ydl>

Hi Stephen

> To follow up from my other post, I have tried a number of Java applets
> on my iBook using Firefox 3.6b5 and the latest IBM Java on my iBook.
> Except for the error message with the java.com version test all others
> have worked correctly as far as I can tell.  Try using at least
> Firefox 3.6b5 (or the release candidate).  Given the change to the new
> plugin format there may be some bugs in 3.6b1 that are not there in
> the later versions.  I doubt that it is my use of an iBook versus a
> PS3.
> 

It was the release candidate I was trying so I dropped back to 3.6b5
with unfortunately the same result. I my case accessing 
http://www.javatester.org/version.html will cause Firefox to crash.
I'm using a Powermac G5 so I'll build the
release candidate on a Powerbook G4 so see if the result differs. Will
keep you posted.

Thanks again


Pat

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Mon Jan 18 02:33:33 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:33:33 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error
In-Reply-To: <4B52BFC9.8060006@alice.it>
References: <4B52BFC9.8060006@alice.it>
Message-ID: <20100117123333.1bbff4c3@arakus>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 08:44:09 +0100
angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it> wrote:

> Dear Derick, thank you very much for the quick reply. The fact is
> that I previously used the same USB keyboard and USB mouse and I
> hadn't any problem, it recognizes the keyboard saying the model and
> it uses a standard driver common for all mice. The problem arose only
> after the blackout. Another peculiarity is that I connect both
> keyboard and mouse to a USB hub in port 1, in order to have a USB
> port free for something else. Greetings, Angelo.
> _______________________________________________

Not a problem, Angelo.

By the way, you may consider that as you are connecting your keyboard
and mouse through the usb hub, the problem udev is complaining about
may be related to the hub you are using.  I suggest this because you
recent comment regarding your keyboard/mouse suggests that YDL running
on the PS3 recognized them when they were directly connected to the PS3.

Unfortunately, not all USB hubs are designed well.  I have used
USB hubs from Belkin, Targus or even Gigaware within YDL across the
years.

The core problem for you however is that udev is complaining about
something it doesn't like.  The simplest solution is to connect
directly to the PS3 and avoid that particular USB hub entirely.  If you
find that udev has no complaints, then you solved the problem and
discovered that the USB hub was what it was complaining about.

After trying this, try also updating your installation by using yum:

#yum update

I hope that udev finds happiness.  :-D

In other words, that udev stops complaining and things get back to a
state which is workable for you.

All the best...

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100117/53b8da46/attachment.bin>

From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Mon Jan 18 02:50:23 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:50:23 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
Message-ID: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>

Thank you very much Derick for your effort, but I used the same USB hub 
also previously, and udev didn't complain. Thus, it shouldn't be the 
reason why now it does. You haven't told me what this error message 
means. Thanks, Angelo.

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Mon Jan 18 04:00:20 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:00:20 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
Message-ID: <20100117140020.09bb37f9@arakus>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:50:23 +0100
angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it> wrote:

> Thank you very much Derick for your effort, but I used the same USB
> hub also previously, and udev didn't complain. Thus, it shouldn't be
> the reason why now it does. You haven't told me what this error
> message means. Thanks, Angelo.

Hi Angelo:

udev is complaining that something is wrong with the devices
(keyboard/mice) it is designed to oversee.  The links I shared with you
earlier are guides which you can use which you can refer to so that you
can modify udev to your environment so that udev will not report that
error/complaint.  As others wrote the guide for modifying udev, I
thought their experiences would be useful to you.

It is true that their experience is on other computers and even other
Linux distributions -- even so, the step by step details
which they provide should work within YDL and could be useful for you
to follow or at least consider examining the udev user commands which
udev is following while at the same time being informed regarding how to
change/modify those settings to meet your needs (in consideration of
the hardware you are actually using).

Again if you have unplugged the keyboard/mouse directly into the USB
port into the PS3 and then plugged them back in while observing how
udev behaved as it boot into YDL. Then you again tried the same
procedure, this time connecting your keyboard/mouse into the USB hub
observing how udev behaved as it boot into YDL, and after all that you
found that udev was still complaining or reporting the same error, then
you need to consider using the links I sent earlier as a guide. 

The references should be clear enough for you to decipher which command
or user settings which need to be changed.

Unfortunately, doing such things is part of the "normal" reality of
utilizing any Linux distribution.  There is always one more "thing"
which doesn't quite work as well as one would like.

Good Luck... 


=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100117/73b902c9/attachment.bin>

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 10:36:38 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:36:38 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:50 AM, angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it> wrote:

> Thank you very much Derick for your effort, but I used the same USB hub also
> previously, and udev didn't complain. Thus, it shouldn't be the reason why
> now it does. You haven't told me what this error message means. Thanks,

what's the exact message? ( ie /var/log/dmesg - should be there I
think... the X one I can't remember...)

Also, are you very sure its udev that's causing the problem? The
default YDL boots to X you see.

It might be coming from one of the startup scripts I think. xmodmap
(the executable) is part of X which sets your keyboard map etc...

I noticed you typed Xmodmap - and you referred to /etc/X11 -  you
possibly may be referring to the default config file which I think X
parses as it starts.

In which case I have a hypothesis - the file might have been corrupted
in that inadvertent system shutdown.

Perhaps someone here with a lot more X knowledge can help. Maybe  'man
xmodmap' - there might be more info there.

This also begs another question: if one file is corrupt, what else could be?

I would suggest making frequent backups of your linux install just in
case something gets really messed up - I experiment a lot, you see, so
I do ;)

> Angelo.

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From sam.lummis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 06:04:59 2010
From: sam.lummis at gmail.com (Sam Lummis)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:04:59 +1300
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
In-Reply-To: <20100115122659.78a7df60@arakus>
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100115122659.78a7df60@arakus>
Message-ID: <e3bf18331001201304j4cfd14cdl9a8dd822acf46836@mail.gmail.com>

As Derick has said, OpenSource does in no way mean free. That's a
connotation uninformed people consistently derive about Open Source
Software. It's insulting that you'll insult a perfectly legitimate, well
meaning company without doing your research.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:38:18 -0500
> Young-Min Park <smpl90s at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't call yourselves open source if it's not free.  This is an
> > outrage to everyone who as ever volunteered their time and expertise
> > to open source projects without pay.
> >
>
> Hi Park:
>
> Judging from your comment, it appears there is some misunderstanding of
> what is offered as a commercial service/product and what is open source.
> Briefly, there are multiple definitions of open source around the world
> which are explained here:
>
> http://www.opensource.org/
>
> If you can take the time to explore the various licenses and kinds of
> open source commitments which many companies adhere to and expect
> their users to adhere to as well, you'll observe the very large breadth
> or gap of intention and meaning of all these various licenses -- it is
> an education to explore as much of them as possible. Although various
> companies do offer some of their software products as "open source"
> they define the conditions they choose to do so and those conditions
> express widely differing definitions, and circumstances regarding when
> such a process will be done.  The expectations and obligations by those
> using their software also differ.  Some companies state very clearly
> that if the reader doesn't agree to the terms of what the company or
> project is offering, then one must not use the software.
>
> Some of what companies and projects offer is committed to open source
> only after a period of time and/or under particular circumstances.  PGP
> (pgp.com), for instance, makes their contribution in two different
> ways.  They offer a trial software product for Windows and OS X which
> after 30 days provides some, not all the functions, of their commercial
> product.  In other words, the trial version after 30 days, functions as
> "free" software has less functionality of the trial version, but
> remains quite useful as free software. They also contribute to the
> GnuGP project so that gpg2 can run something called OpenPGP or OpenGP
> which allows for public keys created with the trial or free version or
> other commercial products of PGP to be understood by gpg2.
>
> Individuals and companies have the right to determine the terms and
> conditions of their employment.  This means also that a person (an
> individual human or commercial entity) can freely determine when they
> will charge for services for their product and/or when they will
> contribute to open source or other community based or free effort.
>
> The obligation for everyone however is to become clearer regarding
> which licenses and commercial/non-commercial obligations or
> expectations one is agreeing to.
>
> I prefer an agreement based on a handshake.  We are all a long way from
> those days, especially as our current transactions of services span
> across the planet.  What we can do however is to clarify the terms and
> means of our relationships to one another which although challenging to
> examine and consider -- in the long run can help smooth the means for
> cooperation.
>
> =========
> Refranes/Popular sayings:
> The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
> There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info:
> http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100121/470ca615/attachment-0001.html>

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:38:00 -0700
Subject: [ydl-gen] YDL + USB drives
In-Reply-To: <06F6E32F-B998-42FB-946B-6BDC774825EE@noaa.gov>
References: <62F59C65-FC62-4748-AA40-22A030B3A2C9@noaa.gov>
	<06F6E32F-B998-42FB-946B-6BDC774825EE@noaa.gov>

Robert,

(bringing this back to the list as a resolve to your posted issue)

> I booted YDL 6.2 on the PS-3 on my normal user account, plugged in
> the new FAT32 USB drive, and it popped up on the Desktop. The other
> times I was in the root account. There are more icons on root than
> on my normal desktop, and I believe that what happened before with
> the USB drive is that its icon was displayed off-screen where it
> could not be seen.

Ah! Makes sense. But if you double-click on the Computer icon, it will 
show you a list of all mounted devices. And if a Window falls off, 
you need only go to:

	YDL Menu --> Windows --> Lost Windows

... and it will auto-center all Windows that are off-screen.


> I also do not understand why YDL doesn't start up the WIFI on boot,
> but the game OS does. I have some documentation for fixing that
> problem which I need to read first, though. This is not a high
> priority, as I have the PS-3 wired directly into the ATT/Uverse
> Wirespeed modem.

Hhmm ... it does for me with my PB, but might be a PS3 issue as the I 
recall the PS3s being rather trouble-some in this regard.


> I set up additional YUM repositories yesterday, but I didn't have
> time to re-install Java. At present, I had downloaded the latest
> Java rpm files from IBM, and installed them. However, posters on
> YDL.net seem to indicate that there should be files in /opt. In my
> installation, / opt is empty. I suppose I need to find the files
> that were installed & delete or move them to /opt, but that will
> take more time I don't have right now.
>
> When I had YDL on my G5, I could not mount any of the YDL
> partitions under Mac OS 10.5.8, ... I didn't try to mount my HFS+ 
> data partition under YDL. 

With older versions of OSX there was a wonderful plug-in that allowed 
for the mounting of ext3 partitions, but it seems to no longer be 
available, thus my original post about mounting a shared OSX 
partition instead.


From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Thu Jan 21 22:38:48 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:38:48 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
	<1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>

Robert Spykerman ha scritto:
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:50 AM, angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it> wrote:
>
>   
>> Thank you very much Derick for your effort, but I used the same USB hub also
>> previously, and udev didn't complain. Thus, it shouldn't be the reason why
>> now it does. You haven't told me what this error message means. Thanks,
>>     
>
> what's the exact message? ( ie /var/log/dmesg - should be there I
> think... the X one I can't remember...)
>
> Also, are you very sure its udev that's causing the problem? The
> default YDL boots to X you see.
>
> It might be coming from one of the startup scripts I think. xmodmap
> (the executable) is part of X which sets your keyboard map etc...
>
> I noticed you typed Xmodmap - and you referred to /etc/X11 -  you
> possibly may be referring to the default config file which I think X
> parses as it starts.
>
> In which case I have a hypothesis - the file might have been corrupted
> in that inadvertent system shutdown.
>
> Perhaps someone here with a lot more X knowledge can help. Maybe  'man
> xmodmap' - there might be more info there.
>
> This also begs another question: if one file is corrupt, what else could be?
>
> I would suggest making frequent backups of your linux install just in
> case something gets really messed up - I experiment a lot, you see, so
> I do ;)
>
>   
>> Angelo.
>>     
>
> Robert Spykerman
>
>   
Hi Robert and thanks for your concern about my problem. The exact 
message is: error at "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". Thanks in advance, Angelo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100121/7fdadf2d/attachment.html>

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 09:30:22 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:30:22 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
	<1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001211630oa74f8fas8aaa0dab6399ff78@mail.gmail.com>

2010/1/22 angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it>:

> Hi Robert and thanks for your concern about my problem. The exact message
> is: error at "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". Thanks in advance, Angelo

Hmm.. Now the other thing that would be interesting is to know where
this mesage is being issued from, ie which script. I am guessing that
an X startup script issues this but I am not sure.

To me, it sounds like xmodmap is trying to parse /etc/X11/Xmodmap and
failing. From what you've described (no change in hardware, previously
working USB peripherals etc), in the setting of an improper shutdown,
there is one highly likely explanation I can think of - your Xmodmap
file must have someway been corrupted.

Now unfortunately I do not know enough about X to say this with any
degree of certainty nor can I tell you how exactly to fix it. You may
well want to take a look at the Xmodmap file, if it's corrupt,
generate a new Xmodmap config file and see if that works.

That will mean understanding the format of the Xmodmap config file and
that will mean looking I guess, ie man xmodmap.

Please note, I could be completely wrong, I am still struggling to
figure out how a linux distro is put together. Someone more well
versed in this might be able to hep

Robert Spykerman
-- 
chown -R us ./base

From billfink at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 22 17:59:34 2010
From: billfink at mindspring.com (Bill Fink)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:59:34 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <1d5b8ec31001211630oa74f8fas8aaa0dab6399ff78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>
	<1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>
	<1d5b8ec31001211630oa74f8fas8aaa0dab6399ff78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100122035934.0586c0d2.billfink@mindspring.com>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Robert Spykerman wrote:

> 2010/1/22 angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it>:
> 
> > Hi Robert and thanks for your concern about my problem. The exact message
> > is: error at "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". Thanks in advance, Angelo
> 
> Hmm.. Now the other thing that would be interesting is to know where
> this mesage is being issued from, ie which script. I am guessing that
> an X startup script issues this but I am not sure.
> 
> To me, it sounds like xmodmap is trying to parse /etc/X11/Xmodmap and
> failing. From what you've described (no change in hardware, previously
> working USB peripherals etc), in the setting of an improper shutdown,
> there is one highly likely explanation I can think of - your Xmodmap
> file must have someway been corrupted.
> 
> Now unfortunately I do not know enough about X to say this with any
> degree of certainty nor can I tell you how exactly to fix it. You may
> well want to take a look at the Xmodmap file, if it's corrupt,
> generate a new Xmodmap config file and see if that works.
> 
> That will mean understanding the format of the Xmodmap config file and
> that will mean looking I guess, ie man xmodmap.
> 
> Please note, I could be completely wrong, I am still struggling to
> figure out how a linux distro is put together. Someone more well
> versed in this might be able to hep

You can check if the Xmodmap file is corrupted by the following
procedure:

	1.  Find out what RPM /etc/X11/Xmodmap is a part of:

	    gwiz% rpm -qf /etc/X11/Xmodmap 
	    xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.9-9.fc11.x86_64

	2.  Now check the integrity of the xorg-x11-xinit RPM:

	    gwiz% rpm --verify xorg-x11-xinit
	    gwiz% 

            No output is a good sign.  Check "man rpm" for an
	    explanation of any detected issues.

	3.  If the xorg-x11-xinit RPM is corrupted, you can
	    reinstall it as root using the command:

	    yum reinstall xorg-x11-xinit

Of course there could be other things also corrupted, or the
file system itself could be corrupted, perhaps causing something
else to erroneously reference the Xmodmap file, even if it isn't
corrupted itself.  Hence the importance of system backups.

					-Hope this helps

					-Bill

From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Fri Jan 22 18:33:16 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:33:16 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <20100122035934.0586c0d2.billfink@mindspring.com>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>	<1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>	<4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>	<1d5b8ec31001211630oa74f8fas8aaa0dab6399ff78@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100122035934.0586c0d2.billfink@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <4B5970DC.80604@alice.it>

Bill Fink ha scritto:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Robert Spykerman wrote:
>
>   
>> 2010/1/22 angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it>:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Robert and thanks for your concern about my problem. The exact message
>>> is: error at "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". Thanks in advance, Angelo
>>>       
>> Hmm.. Now the other thing that would be interesting is to know where
>> this mesage is being issued from, ie which script. I am guessing that
>> an X startup script issues this but I am not sure.
>>
>> To me, it sounds like xmodmap is trying to parse /etc/X11/Xmodmap and
>> failing. From what you've described (no change in hardware, previously
>> working USB peripherals etc), in the setting of an improper shutdown,
>> there is one highly likely explanation I can think of - your Xmodmap
>> file must have someway been corrupted.
>>
>> Now unfortunately I do not know enough about X to say this with any
>> degree of certainty nor can I tell you how exactly to fix it. You may
>> well want to take a look at the Xmodmap file, if it's corrupt,
>> generate a new Xmodmap config file and see if that works.
>>
>> That will mean understanding the format of the Xmodmap config file and
>> that will mean looking I guess, ie man xmodmap.
>>
>> Please note, I could be completely wrong, I am still struggling to
>> figure out how a linux distro is put together. Someone more well
>> versed in this might be able to hep
>>     
>
> You can check if the Xmodmap file is corrupted by the following
> procedure:
>
> 	1.  Find out what RPM /etc/X11/Xmodmap is a part of:
>
> 	    gwiz% rpm -qf /etc/X11/Xmodmap 
> 	    xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.9-9.fc11.x86_64
>
> 	2.  Now check the integrity of the xorg-x11-xinit RPM:
>
> 	    gwiz% rpm --verify xorg-x11-xinit
> 	    gwiz% 
>
>             No output is a good sign.  Check "man rpm" for an
> 	    explanation of any detected issues.
>
> 	3.  If the xorg-x11-xinit RPM is corrupted, you can
> 	    reinstall it as root using the command:
>
> 	    yum reinstall xorg-x11-xinit
>
> Of course there could be other things also corrupted, or the
> file system itself could be corrupted, perhaps causing something
> else to erroneously reference the Xmodmap file, even if it isn't
> corrupted itself.  Hence the importance of system backups.
>
> 					-Hope this helps
>
> 					-Bill
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
>
>   
Thank you very much, Bill, for the precious info. I'll try the commands 
you wrote and I surely let you know the outcome. Thanks again, Angelo Da Re.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100122/b075be21/attachment.html>

From ydl-info at fixstars.com  Mon Jan 25 21:47:10 2010
From: ydl-info at fixstars.com (The YDL Team)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:47:10 +0900
Subject: [ydl-gen] Notice of Server Maintenance
In-Reply-To: <20100115112628.054C.7D2F32C6@fixstars.com>
References: <20100115112628.054C.7D2F32C6@fixstars.com>
Message-ID: <20100125214708.D909.7D2F32C6@fixstars.com>

Dear Yellow Dog Enthusiasts,

We performed scheduled maintenance on several servers on
January 24th 2010.

Thank you for your patience,
The YDL team.
--
Contact: ydl-info at fixstars.com

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:26:28 +0900
The YDL Team <ydl-info at fixstars.com> wrote:

> Dear Yellow Dog Enthusiasts,
> 
> We will be performing scheduled maintenance on ydl.net server on 
> January 24th 2010.
> 
> Maintenance schedule
> ---------------------
> 
> Time:		
> 	10:00PM January 24th - 2:00AM January 25th (PST).
> 	(January 25th 3:00PM - 7:00PM (JST))
> 
> Services affected:	
> 	YDL.net (web, email, blog, yum)
> 	lists.fixstars.com (mailing lists)
> 	yellwowdog-board.com (forum)
> 
> 
> During the maintenance, services will not be available. 
> We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
> 
> Thank you for your patience,
> The YDL team.
> 
> --
> Contact: ydl-info at fixstars.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'


Contact: ydl-info at fixstars.com

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:09:41 -0700
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!

As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I 
offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars

From hal.martin at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 06:28:27 2010
From: hal.martin at gmail.com (Hal Martin)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:28:27 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
In-Reply-To: <e3bf18331001201304j4cfd14cdl9a8dd822acf46836@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>	<20100115122659.78a7df60@arakus>
	<e3bf18331001201304j4cfd14cdl9a8dd822acf46836@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5E0CFB.4020709@gmail.com>

I think that GNU.org offers possibly the best explanation for open
source stands for:

"Free software" is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the
concept, you should think of "free" as in "free speech," not as in "free
beer."


An example of this is RedHat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). RHEL is a paid
product because when you buy it, you're also buying a support package.
RedHat still releases the source code for a vast majority of RHEL
packages, making the CentOS project possible. If you'd rather not pay
for RHEL, then feel free to run CentOS, which is upstream compatible
with RHEL packages, but lacking in paid support.


- Hal

On 01/20/2010 04:04 PM, Sam Lummis wrote:
> As Derick has said, OpenSource does in no way mean free. That's a
> connotation uninformed people consistently derive about Open Source
> Software. It's insulting that you'll insult a perfectly legitimate,
> well meaning company without doing your research.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100125/90ec0517/attachment.html>

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Tue Jan 26 07:34:45 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:34:45 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] pathetic
In-Reply-To: <20100120175445.139c6429@arakus>
References: <9682d171001150638v3fb5f6c5qf697489a5391f4be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100115122659.78a7df60@arakus>
	<e3bf18331001201304j4cfd14cdl9a8dd822acf46836@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100120175445.139c6429@arakus>
Message-ID: <20100125173445.0bfd00e7@arakus>

> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:04:59 +1300
> Sam Lummis <sam.lummis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > As Derick has said, OpenSource does in no way mean free. That's a
> > connotation uninformed people consistently derive about Open Source
> > Software. It's insulting that you'll insult a perfectly legitimate, well
> > meaning company without doing your research.
> > 


Hi Sam!!

I was going to let this thread go into the vast cyber black-hole when I noticed
your reply.  

I believe I know what got Park's goat.  I can't be sure that what I believe is
the source of his indignation, but it's a reasonable guess based on the timing
of his response. 

I responded to a query posted on Jan 14, 2010 on the subject: Re: [ydl-gen]
Installation fail on Blade JS22. The query expressed a complaint that YDL would
not run on a Blade JS22. Early the next day, I responded with a link to a
Fixstars posting explaining that YDEL is a commercial product designed to run
on JS2x systems. Fixstar's error was that their webpages did not explicitly
define, explain or emphasize the distinction between YDL and YDEL.

Unfortunately, Fixstars has lost webpages and links as various internal
changes were made.  It is difficult for any organization to keep all software
support documentation on their websites pristinely clear; it is even more
difficult during periods of rapid business and technological changes to
maintain clarity across a variety of cultures and languages.

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100125/fde82bb8/attachment.bin>

From pjwall at mac.com  Tue Jan 26 08:45:51 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:45:51 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3-YDL 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20100117130832.6b8c6870@powermacg5.ydl>
References: <AAB147B4-FA6B-46DC-AF2A-428B46085B2E@noaa.gov>	<4B466352.3060102@mac.com>	<20100108233811.GA5394@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>	<1263065585.4682.15.camel@arakus>	<20100109223800.GA5230@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>	<20100111172710.6ec9639e@powermacg5.ydl>	<20100116224734.GB5330@h42180.pems.adfa.edu.au>
	<20100117130832.6b8c6870@powermacg5.ydl>
Message-ID: <4B5E2D2F.6080908@mac.com>

Pat Wall wrote:
> Hi Stephen
>
>    
>> To follow up from my other post, I have tried a number of Java applets
>> on my iBook using Firefox 3.6b5 and the latest IBM Java on my iBook.
>> Except for the error message with the java.com version test all others
>> have worked correctly as far as I can tell.  Try using at least
>> Firefox 3.6b5 (or the release candidate).  Given the change to the new
>> plugin format there may be some bugs in 3.6b1 that are not there in
>> the later versions.  I doubt that it is my use of an iBook versus a
>> PS3.
>>
>>      
> It was the release candidate I was trying so I dropped back to 3.6b5
> with unfortunately the same result. I my case accessing
> http://www.javatester.org/version.html will cause Firefox to crash.
> I'm using a Powermac G5 so I'll build the
> release candidate on a Powerbook G4 so see if the result differs. Will
> keep you posted.
>    
Well I finally have Java up and running perfectly under Firefox 3.6! I 
compiled the final release version of FF 3.6 and created a symlink in 
/usr/local/bin/ to the script firefox exactly as I had done after 
building the release candidate. Previously I have been testing Firefox 
3.6 by starting it from the command line but this time I tested the 
build by clicking on the Firefox application icon in the E17 shelf. (As 
I have /usr/local/bin set to take precedence over /usr/bin in my PATH  
/usr/local/bin/firefox starts instead of  /usr/bin/firefox)

I experienced no crashes loading a java applet starting FF 3.6 from the 
shelf but yet if I start it from the command line it will crash loading 
an applet every time. Not sure why this is ... main thing is that it's 
(and obviously always was) now working :-)


Pat




From pjwall at mac.com  Tue Jan 26 09:17:16 2010
From: pjwall at mac.com (Pat Wall)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:17:16 +0000
Subject: [ydl-gen] Java on PS3
In-Reply-To: <20100115144803.328fb292@arakus>
References: <1DB163A7-BA51-4F43-BF2D-63C6F74B7BB0@noaa.gov>
	<20100115004524.62d167a2@arakus>
	<20100115144919.28b3621f@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115150213.15b1ac66@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115110356.68181639@arakus>
	<20100115161634.472e358b@powermacg5.ydl>
	<20100115144803.328fb292@arakus>
Message-ID: <4B5E348C.1060601@mac.com>

Derick Centeno wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:16:34 +0000
> Pat Wall<pjwall at mac.com>  wrote:
>
>    
>>      
>>> Hi Pat,
>>>
>>> I appreciate your clarification. ...
>>>        
>> Hi Derick
>>
>> That's very interesting. I just couldn't get the plugin to register by
>> cp'ing, other than that, no adverse effects. Must be something
>> peculiar to my setup.
>>
>> Anyway I think I better stop tinkering now before I break
>> something ;-)
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Pat
>>      
> Hi Pat!
>
> As for me, I'll never stop tinkering.
>
> Your experience got me thinking and I decided to backtrack what I did
> do as it appears my experience is completely different from what you
> and others reported.  Well I did discover what I did, however I didn't
> use the copy (cp) command -- I used move (mv) instead.
>
> Here's the actual execution:
>
> [aguila at arakus ~]$ sudo mv ./lib*so /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
>
> Explanation:  I was within the directory where the java plugin existed
> which is: /opt/ibm/java-ppc-60/jre/plugin/ppc/ns7.  So the above was
> executed from within the ns7 directory.  I found something interesting
> which does apply which you can read yourself within YDL 6.2 by doing:
>
> $ info mv
>
> Here's the part which interests me which may be the root of explaining
> why my approach (using mv, not cp) works.
>
> Note:
> `mv' can move any type of file from one file system to another.
> Prior to version `4.0' of the fileutils, `mv' could move only regular
> files between file systems.  For example, now `mv' can move an entire
> directory hierarchy including special device files from one partition
> to another.  It first uses some of the same code that's used by `cp -a'
> to copy the requested directories and files, then (assuming the copy
> succeeded) it removes the originals. ...
>
> What is interesting is that the *.so remains in the ns7 directory and
> mv executed the function implementing "some of the same code used by
> "cp -a".  This strategy may have created an unintended side effect; I
> noticed that mv did not erase the original location of *.so but
> created in fact a link to *.so where it actually resides in the ns7
> directory! The reason for this may be the result of how I used mv as
> opposed to the way it was designed to be used.  I'll send a query to
> the programmers who created mv and present to them the details I'm
> omitting here.
>
> Interesting how we began talking about tinkering and here we are.
>
> All the best...
>    
Hi Derick

Tinkering, occasionally breaking and (hopefully) fixing is definitely 
the best way of learning. My wife is always giving out that the computer 
never works when she wants to use it as I normally haven't gotten around 
to the fixing part yet ;-)

What you described with the mv command is certainly intriguing.

Best wishes


Pat


From dcenteno at ydl.net  Tue Jan 26 10:25:46 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:25:46 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
Message-ID: <20100125202546.4d9e3565@arakus>

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:09:41 -0700

> As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I 
> offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot:
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars
> _______________________________________________

IBM clarified (last November) that they have ceased all further development on
the Cell and have moved along the direction of heterogenous multicore systems
of which the Cell is the first implementation of instead.  The article
discussing this is here:

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/11/end-of-the-line-for-ibms-cell.ars

It may be that the next implementation may look something like the Toshiba
SpursEngine.  As far as YDL and related software is concerned it was
clarified in a discussion in this list last year that YDL nor related software
will run on the Toshiba SpursEngine.  Regarding it's plans Fixstars announced
that it is developing software for homogeneous multicore systems instead. That
announcement, made last December, is here:

http://www.fixstars.com/en/company/press/20091216.html

Therefore, all be told, the interesting work on forward looking and advanced
systems continues but most likely will be carried forward elsewhere by a
different Linux distribution. 

Given how IBM has moved historically, newer designs should be coming to market
surpassing the Cell and Intel i7 homogeneous designs early this year and build
market presence firmly.

That the Cell has been hacked will force proliferation of a variety of Linux
distributions running on the Cell as the market gradually moves to whatever IBM
has designed as whatever it envisions as it's progression "beyond the Cell". It
is a safe bet that the Linux distribution ready to run on IBM's new design
"beyond the Cell" will be the next premier distribution to use for serious
forward looking work.

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100125/0b25b706/attachment.bin>

From Rhubbell at iHubbell.com  Tue Jan 26 12:00:34 2010
From: Rhubbell at iHubbell.com (rhubbell)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:00:34 -0800
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
Message-ID: <20100125190034.25d64e2c.Rhubbell@iHubbell.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:09:41 -0700
Kai Staats wrote: 
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars

Well he doesn't really know if he was the first. Or maybe he does and he
is still making the claim.  Will it help sell more PS3s? Will people start
copying PS3 games and pirating them? Probably. Maybe nintendo or microsoft
is funding the guy.  Industrial espionage is alive and well so.... Lots of
$$ at stake. 

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 20:20:56 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:20:56 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001260320g4d6329aehb4b0359475e70e00@mail.gmail.com>

> As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I
> offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars

Now, I am wondering

(1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3

(2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would
say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3...

(3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it
will ever actually happen.

Sadly. I honestly do not believe all that much will actually happen. I
hope I am wrong about this.

I hope we will have other interesting things to play with soon,
however. The new out-of-order ARM derivatives from NVIDIA look
particulary interesting. I wonder if they catch on on mobile phones
and netbooks will they ever start appearing on the desktop.

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From dcenteno at ydl.net  Wed Jan 27 01:45:40 2010
From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:45:40 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
In-Reply-To: <1d5b8ec31001260320g4d6329aehb4b0359475e70e00@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d5b8ec31001260320g4d6329aehb4b0359475e70e00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100126114540.6eaa08b2@arakus>

Hi Rob, my comments follow yours:

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:20:56 +1100
Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:

> > As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I
> > offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot:
> >
> > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars
> 
> Now, I am wondering
> 
> (1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3
> 
That depends on which Linux distributions decide to share and incorporate the
code this fellow generates.  It also depends which open source license he
chooses to utilize.  This choice (whichever it becomes) will lock out or
exclude some Linux distributions as the open source licenses they participate
with may be different from his.

An example of this limitation exists in how the Claws Mail project had to drop
utilizing Clamav from it's project because Clamav utilizes a different open
source license.  The "work around" can only be implemented by individuals who
want to code clamav so that it works within the version of Claws Mail which
they use on their own computer.

In brief as to when the code will be available depends on when he
releases his work and under what open source license.  If you want to have a
clue regarding the variety of open source licenses (and gain a better
understanding of that universe) you can refer here: http://www.opensource.org/


> (2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would
> say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3...

Depending under which open source license the work is finally released as a
variety of projects can participate.  I doubt very much whether Fixstars will
participate though as they have commercial obligations to adhere to.  Then
again what Fixstars does or doesn't choose to do has little to do with what
talented programmers will choose to do on their own anyway, if I was to guess I
would believe that work would appear within Debian Linux and it's variant
Ubuntu first.  Slackware Linux and others may move towards this direction and
others.

Established commercial interests may not offer tools to facilitate this
independent effort as their business obligations would be threatened or prevent
them from participating.  IBM for instance, announced that it ceased Cell
development last December.  So work at a sufficiently sophisticated and useful
level which interests techncially saavy professionals may be slow to develop if
at all, since most will be looking towards where IBM is going as opposed to
Cell projects which IBM has abandoned.

> (3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it
> will ever actually happen.

Programming for the Cell isn't easy at all.  Decent discussions involving an in
depth consideration of various processors was explored with the YDL Board.  One
such discussion is here:
http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4976

There are other threads.  Just search the thread discussing the PS3 and others
on the YDL Board which may be informative on various informative details.  In
the end, there are very good reasons why IBM is moving towards heterogeneous
multicore systems could look something like the Toshiba SpursEngine as that
design is more effective in terms of producing working and manageable code
quickly, than the Cell has been.
> 
> Sadly. I honestly do not believe all that much will actually happen. I
> hope I am wrong about this.

As usual in high-tech prognostications time will prove which idea or design is
the most practical.  We are reading tea leaves even with the variety
of experiences we may contribute to this or other discussions.  In other words,
unless we are directly involved with one or another project we will have to
wait to observe where the various commercial and open source efforts actually
lead to over time.
> 
> I hope we will have other interesting things to play with soon,
> however. The new out-of-order ARM derivatives from NVIDIA look
> particulary interesting. 

As the Cell is dead as a development project, although it may continue for
sometime development will continue "in the wild" for quite sometime another
reason why commercial entities may not feel comfortable in making contributions
to such efforts.  Work on the Tesla though interesting, if one is looking for
what is available now which is indicative of where IBM is going there is only
one system on the market currently which comes close and is affordable within
the current consumer market -- the Toshiba SpursEngine.  

It was established last year that YDL will not run on the Toshiba SpursEngine.
Also Fixstars announced in December that they are supporting and developing for
homogeneous multicore processors; resources being limited as they are, it is
doubtful they will change their mind. The next question then really is a matter
of determining which Linux will. I did come across a brief mention that the
Debian variant known as Ubuntu will run on it.

All the best...

=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100126/7899fcc5/attachment.bin>

From nicmuir at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 03:16:25 2010
From: nicmuir at gmail.com (Nicholas Robertson-Muir)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:16:25 +0200
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
In-Reply-To: <20100126114540.6eaa08b2@arakus>
	<1d5b8ec31001260320g4d6329aehb4b0359475e70e00@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100126114540.6eaa08b2@arakus>
Message-ID: <49e7698a1001261016s4b5b230bkedffc467348ee46@mail.gmail.com>

Jumping the gun a bit.
I don't think we'll see any apps running on the PS3 for a bit.

I wish rather that there wouldn't be any pirating, but rather the
chance to have a system that $ONY originally promised.
Things like PS1/2 emulation and running original games off the
harddrive are on the top of that list.

Full use of the architecture would be nice too.

I have run Ubuntu on the PS3 as well, but never got sound or video
playback to work properly.

I suppose the best thing to come of this will be an increased lifespan
for the system.  I mean, my hacked PS2 runs games off a HDD, has an
AVI and MP3 media player and it even LANs with my PS3 (YDL) or PC.
Makes the future of the PS3 look a little brighter.

Nicholas Robertson-Muir

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 21:35:52 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:35:52 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
In-Reply-To: <20100126114540.6eaa08b2@arakus>
	<1d5b8ec31001260320g4d6329aehb4b0359475e70e00@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100126114540.6eaa08b2@arakus>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001270435k518f0704ia466e7054f036802@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:45 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net> wrote:


> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:20:56 +1100
> Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>...
>> Now, I am wondering
>> (1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3
>>...
> In brief as to when the code will be available depends on when he
> releases his work and under what open source license. ?If you want to have a
> clue regarding the variety of open source licenses (and gain a better
> understanding of that universe) you can refer here: http://www.opensource.org/

Ah, he's a hacker, quite honestly I doubt that he'd care about
licensing or anything like that.  In the spirit of things, it looks
like he has just realized his hack to the public domain, which I've
just downloaded to take a lookie.

And really, the bottom line here is that he's not really publishing
'code' per se he's describing a 'method'.

So... licensing... Non issue.

Take a look at his blog it's quite interesting.

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/heres-your-silver-platter.html

It seems he boots a linux kernel per normal and then inserts a kernel
module which does some fancy memory footwork that I *STILL* don't
understand and somehow trips something inside. He claims enables him
to inject and run unsigned code.

Given he's actually publicly released the hack, and expects fellow
capable colleagues to replicate it, probabilistically I expect it
would likely work. It sounds crazy enough to.

So I would say, (1) is probably in the bag. Not with any certainty,
but ... all it takes is for a few other people out there to replicated
it. And ... I would wager that quite a few will try.

(That said, I'm not taking a soldering iron to my PS3 till, heck, at
least I have ONE to spare hahaha)

>> (2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would
>> say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3...
>
> Depending under which open source license the work is finally released as a
> variety of projects can participate. ?I doubt very much whether Fixstars will
> participate though as they have commercial obligations to adhere to. ?Then
> again what Fixstars does or doesn't choose to do has little to do with what
> talented programmers will choose to do on their own anyway, if I was to guess I
> would believe that work would appear within Debian Linux and it's variant
> Ubuntu first. ?Slackware Linux and others may move towards this direction and
> others.
>
> Established commercial interests may not offer tools to facilitate this
> independent effort as their business obligations would be threatened or prevent
> them from participating. ?IBM for instance, announced that it ceased Cell
> development last December. ?So work at a sufficiently sophisticated and useful
> level which interests techncially saavy professionals may be slow to develop if
> at all, since most will be looking towards where IBM is going as opposed to
> Cell projects which IBM has abandoned.

Re: the kernel rewrite IF (1) proves practical and easy (which it
still looks not unfortunately)..

I just hope there is enough interest in the PS3 hacker community to
engineer something and boot linux.

Honestly, I couldn't care who provides us with a better kernel :) Just
that they make it easy enough for the average enthusiast to... er...
deploy. We can worry about stuff like "what distro" later.

Boot first.

Worry later :)

This would be the most CRITICAL point to achieve, I think after this
hack is confirmed (if it is). If this can be achieved... Wow....

>> (3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it
>> will ever actually happen.
>
> Programming for the Cell isn't easy at all. ?Decent discussions involving an in
> depth consideration of various processors was explored with the YDL Board. ?One
> such discussion is here:
> http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4976

I don't think the Cell is truly the issue here although it is a true
point the cell is hard to program in the sense of truly making use of
its might. All that SPE synergy is not really needed to boot a linux.
All that is required is that the SPE's  not interfere (yes, I mean
that locked-up one especially).

What I perceive the difficulty to be is getting arbitrary unsigned
code running _easily_ and _practically_. At present the way he
describes it appears too inconvenient. But it is a  start.

And then there is the issue of a kernel for effectively what I suspect
is an entirely 'new' machine (I hope I am wrong!), for which ...
manuals are not likely to be available :) So, this is not going to be
easy, I suspect.

And then there is the 'What can Sony do about it?' factor

Interesting stuff. I watch eagerly with anticipation.

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base

From angelo_da_re at alice.it  Fri Jan 29 01:20:15 2010
From: angelo_da_re at alice.it (angelo)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:20:15 +0100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Boot error: USB hub
In-Reply-To: <20100122035934.0586c0d2.billfink@mindspring.com>
References: <4B534DDF.60105@alice.it>	<1d5b8ec31001171736k73fb4f7j2b5d7c7fe25e572d@mail.gmail.com>	<4B5858E8.60901@alice.it>	<1d5b8ec31001211630oa74f8fas8aaa0dab6399ff78@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100122035934.0586c0d2.billfink@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <4B61B93F.3080904@alice.it>

Bill Fink ha scritto:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Robert Spykerman wrote:
>
>   
>> 2010/1/22 angelo <angelo_da_re at alice.it>:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Robert and thanks for your concern about my problem. The exact message
>>> is: error at "! /etc/X11/Xmodmap". Thanks in advance, Angelo
>>>       
>> Hmm.. Now the other thing that would be interesting is to know where
>> this mesage is being issued from, ie which script. I am guessing that
>> an X startup script issues this but I am not sure.
>>
>> To me, it sounds like xmodmap is trying to parse /etc/X11/Xmodmap and
>> failing. From what you've described (no change in hardware, previously
>> working USB peripherals etc), in the setting of an improper shutdown,
>> there is one highly likely explanation I can think of - your Xmodmap
>> file must have someway been corrupted.
>>
>> Now unfortunately I do not know enough about X to say this with any
>> degree of certainty nor can I tell you how exactly to fix it. You may
>> well want to take a look at the Xmodmap file, if it's corrupt,
>> generate a new Xmodmap config file and see if that works.
>>
>> That will mean understanding the format of the Xmodmap config file and
>> that will mean looking I guess, ie man xmodmap.
>>
>> Please note, I could be completely wrong, I am still struggling to
>> figure out how a linux distro is put together. Someone more well
>> versed in this might be able to hep
>>     
>
> You can check if the Xmodmap file is corrupted by the following
> procedure:
>
> 	1.  Find out what RPM /etc/X11/Xmodmap is a part of:
>
> 	    gwiz% rpm -qf /etc/X11/Xmodmap 
> 	    xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.9-9.fc11.x86_64
>
> 	2.  Now check the integrity of the xorg-x11-xinit RPM:
>
> 	    gwiz% rpm --verify xorg-x11-xinit
> 	    gwiz% 
>
>             No output is a good sign.  Check "man rpm" for an
> 	    explanation of any detected issues.
>
> 	3.  If the xorg-x11-xinit RPM is corrupted, you can
> 	    reinstall it as root using the command:
>
> 	    yum reinstall xorg-x11-xinit
>
> Of course there could be other things also corrupted, or the
> file system itself could be corrupted, perhaps causing something
> else to erroneously reference the Xmodmap file, even if it isn't
> corrupted itself.  Hence the importance of system backups.
>
> 					-Hope this helps
>
> 					-Bill
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com
> Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '&lt;keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'
>
>   
Thank you very much, Bill. When I issue the gwiz% command, it says 
"command not found".
Thus, I don't know what to do. Also the yum reinstall does not exist. It 
lists all the possible parameters, but reinstall is not among them. What 
should I do ? Thanks in advance, Angelo.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100128/3da2f7d7/attachment-0001.html>

From Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov  Sat Jan 30 03:36:25 2010
From: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov (Robert Black)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:36:25 -0500
Subject: [ydl-gen] Progress with YDL on PS-3
Message-ID: <9FE0C66B-CFFB-4384-8C8B-12FA40680E1E@noaa.gov>

Folks, I re-installed YDL from the .iso DVD after learning that there  
was a special installer for that - apparently, the YDL installer isn't  
good enough to determine the system type by itself. FTP now works - it  
didn't in the original ppc-64 bit install, as that was apparently only  
good for a Mac G5. Why these are so different is beyond me, & I really  
don't want to know.

Results are as follows:

I added extra repositories as per instructions on the message boards,  
& installed Java from those repositories instead of using IBM's .rpm  
files. That process put the Java app itself in /usr/local/sbin. I have  
no idea where the rest of the libraries went. I didn't have time for a  
thorough search. /opt is empty.

The 1080P HDTV screen is now fully functional, although the text size  
is too small for me to read comfortably - I must sit too close to the  
TV for my comfort. Changing the screen resolution through the El7  
utility does not work, but with some windows, I can increase the text  
size.

I tried to install SeaMonkey from a .rpm file; that failed, claiming  
about 50 different library files are needed. Getting them will take a  
long time.

USB jump drives that were partially useable before are totally useless  
now. YDL-6.2 on the PS-3 CANNOT read FAT-32 USB jump drives - or, they  
do not automount, and I don't know how to do it, because Unix assigns  
weird device names that are not obvious to the uninitiated. I will not  
reformat them, as I must also use them on Macs and PC's as well.  
Oddly, the GameOS reads them just fine.

I will look for the .so java library to try to get FireFox Java  
working. Failing that, I'll install the ibm-java-ppc64- 
jre-6.0-7.0.ppc64.rpm , which loads into /opt.

I have an HP 6280 all-in-one printer that I can't yet use. Finding  
its' IP on the ATT-UVERSE modem is not obvious, I don't believe it is  
Postscript compliant, & I have no ppd file for it anyway.	

I haven't tried to set up the wireless internet - before, it wouldn't  
accept the password.

Anybody else had similar troubles?

Robert A. Black

Research Meteorologist                  4301 Rickenbacker Cswy.
NOAA/AOML/HRD                            Miami, FL 33149-1026

Ph:   (305) 361-4314
FAX: (305) 361-4528 (NEW)

E-Mail: Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov
(Any opinions expressed are mine alone, not NOAA policy)




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/attachments/20100129/f4629ed7/attachment.html>

From robert.spykerman at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 06:44:56 2010
From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:44:56 +1100
Subject: [ydl-gen] Progress with YDL on PS-3
In-Reply-To: <9FE0C66B-CFFB-4384-8C8B-12FA40680E1E@noaa.gov>
References: <9FE0C66B-CFFB-4384-8C8B-12FA40680E1E@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <1d5b8ec31001291344x1c89eb14s11da1e5801348b7a@mail.gmail.com>

Op 30 jan 2010, om 05:36, heeft Robert Black <Robert.A.Black at noaa.gov>
het volgende geschreven:

Hi Robert

> Folks, I re-installed YDL from the .iso DVD after learning that there was a
> special installer for that - apparently, the YDL installer isn't good enough
> to determine the system type by itself.?FTP now works - it didn't in the
> original ppc-64 bit install, as that was apparently only good for a Mac G5.
> Why these are so different is beyond me, & I really don't want to know.

I believe this may be due to a different kernel build/driver set up,
but I have not seen a mac G5 YDL so I can't say for sure ;)

> Results are as follows:
> I added extra repositories as per instructions on the message boards, &
> installed Java from those repositories instead of using IBM's .rpm files.
> That process put the Java app itself in /usr/local/sbin. I have no idea
> where the rest of the libraries went. I didn't have time for a thorough
> search. /opt is empty.

You could do a search, ie

find / -iname \*.so

to find the so files. There may be well a command associated with the
linker to actually list all linkable libraries on the library search
path but I don't know if it exists actually.

One other thing: ld  will typically link to libraries in directories
specified in /etc/ld.so.conf. I think I had to add /usr/local/lib to
this file  to my system as it did not have that directory in it by
default.

> The 1080P HDTV screen is now fully functional, although the text size is too
> small for me to read comfortably - I must sit too close to the TV for my
> comfort. Changing the screen resolution through the El7 utility does not
> work, but with some windows, I can increase the text size.

I prefer working with 720p on my system myself. I have never been able
to run 1080p because as you say, the text is way too small. Look at it
one way, there's less of a burden for the poor ppe to blt, and less
memory used ;)

Try ps3videomode -v to find something you like.

> I tried to install SeaMonkey from a .rpm file; that failed, claiming about
> 50 different library files are needed. Getting them will take a long time.

> USB jump drives that were partially useable before are totally useless now.
> YDL-6.2 on the PS-3 CANNOT read FAT-32 USB jump drives - or, they do not
> automount, and I don't know how to do it, because Unix assigns weird device
> names that are not obvious to the uninitiated. I will not reformat them, as
> I must also use them on Macs and PC's as well. Oddly, the GameOS reads them
> just fine.

I have actually not had any trouble with usb drives at all on YDL 6.2.
FAT-32s automount. But I admit, I do not use E17, so I don't know how
the file manager software there behaves. I believe the usb storage
devices will mount to somewhere in /media from memory - not near my
YDL so I can't check for definite.

> I will look for the .so java library to try to get FireFox Java working.
> Failing that, I'll install the?ibm-java-ppc64-jre-6.0-7.0.ppc64.rpm , which
> loads into /opt.

I don't know about this one - if it's from one of the ps3 repositories
it should be ok, as likely someone has tested it out... but I have a
feeling from its name it may not. Our YDL userland is mainly 32 bit -
our libraries etc are mainly 32 bit. It is possible to run 64 bit
userland code but the pre-installed library base is small, so this is
only possible if the code does not expect to link to much. If it
expects a lot in the 64 bit userland (I know for example our X is 32
bit only) then it may not run.

> I have an HP 6280 all-in-one printer that I can't yet use. Finding its' IP
> on the ATT-UVERSE modem is not obvious, I don't believe it is Postscript
> compliant, & I have no ppd file for it anyway.
> I haven't tried to set up the wireless internet - before, it wouldn't accept
> the password.

I basically took the easy way out and wired my connection ;)

Robert Spykerman

-- 
chown -R us ./base