[ydl-gen] Building Firefox 4.0 under YDL 6.2 PPC

[Derick Centeno]

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:00:01 -0700
Terence G Christopher <t.g.christopher at ieee.org> wrote:

> Yes I realise that it is over before it even started. Clearly the
> Blade is an unusual machine though it has been extensively used
> outside of the PS3. I believe that IBM is collaborating with
> Intel..Does that mean the the blade has also come to the end of its
> development as an independent machine?
> I do not know the architecture of the new Intel machines, do they 
> provide multiple high speed memories or caches depending on how you
> look at them with a main control unit? Do they compete well with
> blade processors? I just don't know where the field is going...
> Everything I read speaks of greater and greater parallelism. Is that
> correct? Are the new hexacore machines developing in the direction of
> the blade? How do they offer architectural advantages. Any reference
> sources would be interesting.
> If that is the case then YDL for that would be interesting too.  
> Certainly anything out of Sony's reach
> Thanks
> Graham
> 
> On 7/28/2010 5:06 PM, Derick Centeno wrote:
> >>      
> > Hi Terrance:
> >
> > It may be of some interest that if you are interested in continuing
> > to run your PS3 with YDL and sacrificing the ability to participate
> > with Sony's current vision for the PS3 you could refer to the YDL
> > Board at http://yellowdog-board.com/
> >
> > Although I do believe that the YDL Board was focused on supporting
> > the PS3, you may pick up some ideas with others regarding what
> > solutions remain or exist.  Some members have taken action and
> > pursued legal action against Sony; I'm not sure that would interest
> > you but there are other threads and topics which may.  Two threads
> > covering a variety of topics include:
> >
> > http://yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7266
> >
> > http://yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7545
> >
> > I really wish that I had something more positive to report in
> > regards to the PS3 but I can say that the YDL Board is well
> > administered by persons well versed in the PS3 and the admins there
> > could be useful. It is possible you may find solutions which are
> > difficult to find elsewhere which would allow you to continue your
> > research effort.
> >
> > As for the incompleteness of YDL, surely you are aware that both
> > Terra Soft Solutions and later Fixstars were always at a
> > disadvantage as they were (and in the case of Fixstars still
> > remain) comparatively tiny companies with finite resources.
> > Support for the PowerPC was always a very odd position for any
> > company because the marketplace for everything supporting that CPU
> > was always small; few know for instance that Linus Torvalds, the
> > creator of Linux, really thought that Linux for the PowerPC was a
> > losing proposition; his actual comment was actually much harsher.
> > For TSS and later Fixstars to make something out of an essentially
> > non-existent marketplace is an amazing accomplishment.
> >
> > Having expressed the above the discussion as I'm sure you are aware
> > is academic.  IBM announced last year in an article published by Ars
> > Technica that they were ceasing production on the Cell and moving
> > onwards towards utilizing what they've learned from working with the
> > Cell by applying techniques developed for it to be implemented with
> > hybridized multicore chips developed by Intel which have begun to
> > hit the marketplace already.  These new systems are not only
> > multicore but a few systems developed by AMD for instance are
> > CPU/GPU hybrids as well.
> >
> > I discussed the details and refered to the various articles within
> > the YDL Board.  There is another technological issue which spelled
> > the end of PowerPC development as it has existed in the past.
> > Fixstars formally announced that YDL 6.2 is the last version of YDL
> > to be developed for PowerPC systems.  Fixstars has moved YDL and
> > all other products to be supporting Intel compatibles only. Although
> > Fixstars does continue to support PowerPC systems these services are
> > all fee based contractual services.
> >
> > The only free current version of YDL which exists is YDL with CUDA
> > which only runs on Intel compatibles.
> >
> > Now we can swim down memory lane or move forward with the scientific
> > and market realities such as they are.  As you are already probably
> > aware there exist hexacore hybridized CPU/GPU systems that are
> > laptops -- the Cell never developed that far.  Depending on who you
> > listen to either an interesting age of technical development is
> > over or moving forward.
> >
> > All the best...

There are two articles I came across which may address aspects of a few
of the questions you raised but not at the level of detail or direction
perhaps which may really interest you.  They are here:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=883

http://www.kokeytechnology.com/internet-technology/amd-llano-hybrid-cpugpu-processor-vs-intel-atom-processor%E2%80%99s-hold-on-laptops-and-netbooks/

I'm exploring reliable references really carefully before I lay out any
cash; having said that it is interesting that Fixstars offers YDL for
CUDA for free and if you reference their Japanese pages it is clear
that they've moved YDL into the x_86 Linux family.  Also support for
CUDA (Nvidia) and ATI's GPU via OpenCL is available with YDL for CUDA.

If your interest remains with the Blades check out what Fixstars offers
you'll be surprised what contracts and services they continue
supporting.  Of course, for most persons this level of discussion is
more than most can follow.

Given the reality that what is useful for one could be meaningless for
another I don't want to suggest that everything is resolved.  I did
want to convey however that if one is looking both in a forward and
practical direction what Fixstars offers -- especially YDL for CUDA --
as a free product can be compelling for the interested individual.

Parallelism remains a challenge however it appears from the articles
that the manner of how it is implemented is more efficient in the new
designs than what existed in the Cell or other PowerPC systems.

By the way here's a tip to decipher whatever Fixstars actually means as
it's headquarters are in Japan (by which I mean, their English pages
don't accurately convey what is going on with their products,
unfortunately).  Access the Fixstars Japanese website directly then
have the entire page processed via Google Translate.  Viola!!

Sensible and meaningful English which one can then use to get answers
from Fixstars more intelligently should you decide to query them
directly.

Good Luck...