From msarro at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 01:25:58 2011 From: msarro at gmail.com (Matty Sarro) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:25:58 -0400 Subject: [ydl-gen] Current rev? Message-ID: Hey everyone. I am new to YDL, so please be gentle. Tonight I am getting a 17" Powerbook G4 and I have a few questions. Does YDL 6.2 stack up against the current rev of RHEL (6?) Or is it closer to 5.5/5.6? Has anyone been able to get compiz fusion working? I'm assuming that since the hardware is rather limited compared to what we have to deal with in the x86 world, there is better out of the box support? Is this correct? I appreciate any help anyone can provide. -Matty From dcenteno at ydl.net Wed Apr 27 05:40:17 2011 From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:40:17 -0400 Subject: [ydl-gen] Current rev? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DB72DB1.9020303@ydl.net> I ran YDL 6.2 on a 15" G4 for a long time until the LCD screen failed. So what I'm sharing is based upon memory. Be that as it may, my experience running YDL spans all the way back since it's earliest incarnations when Terra Soft Solutions (the original creator/vendor) initially released the product -- which is quite a long time ago. In other words, what I don't recall regarding YDL aren't the most important aspects of YDL. Unfortunately for you as a beginner development from major Linux distributions have all ceased; the development (programming work) which does exist has become community based which essentially means whoever has the time to write code after the real lives and jobs have been addressed. There may be some universities and computer research departments which have active research projects which require writing code for PowerPC systems or even current IBM Power systems (http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/) but those projects may not be contributing to any code related to your interests. Another unfortunate problem is that the current reality of PowerPC programming has as it's pre-requisite well developed programming skills at the professional level which even some professionals cannot meet because more current projects such as compiz fusion which is found here ( http://www.compiz.org/) requires that one understand enough about Linux to prepare the computer hardware for compiling and building software from source within Linux although YDL behaves exactly the same way here; the problem is do you know how to do this? See here (http://wiki.compiz.org/). Under hardware you'll notice a listing of GPU (Graphic Processor Units) within the Compiz Wiki: http://wiki.compiz.org/Hardware When Apple was building PowerPC Macs they changed between using ATI to Nvidia across different models. In order for you to discover which GPU you have in your Powerbook G4 I found a page for you which you can use to explore the details for yourself. Here is the link: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/index-powerbook-g4.html I recommend that you look at the link which starts with Complete to find the complete listing which will then include the exact GPU used in your computer. Even if you do all that you may discover only at compile time (whenever you compile the compiz source code within YDL) that the installed hardware is too old to use the source code used by the compiz project. Maybe it is not, you won't know until you do it yourself. The Linux compiler within YDL is strong and intelligent enough to provide a lot of information, but I'll tell you right now that information makes sense to professional programmers only. A typical beginner would wonder how could a computing device be old? The answer is that as time moves forward new programming tools and strategies of controlling hardware are developed which hardware manufacturers take advantage of by building these new strategies into the firmware of their products. You may have noticed that every manufacturer has developed a process of updating the firmware (software designed to control the hardware) of whatever they sell for a period of time. Sometimes that "period of time" is a year or longer. Understand that Apple based PowerPCs and other PowerPC systems are so old that the manufacturers that produced those firmware updates in the past may no longer do so -- if they even still exist! This means that you have to know enough to make your own firmware update which again is another level of programming sophistication because that requires knowing how to code for the GPU directly utilizing the guidelines provided by the manufacturer. However if you are willing here is the page of the compiz project you need to look at: http://wiki.compiz.org/Hardware/NVIDIA Because each person using YDL, or any PowerPC based Linux, is really on their own be sure that you read the instructions on that and other sites explaining such details very carefully. It is very easy to miss something. Can using Linux be easier? Probably -- if one was willing to just pay money to stay current with whatever is popular. Programming in Linux, or YDL or anywhere should start with a willingness and determination which most consumers don't have. Think of it this way, a generation or two ago people used to repair and upgrade their own cars. Linux still allows you to do something similar on your own computer, even in YDL this is true. It just means that individuals have to be focused and determined to get done what one chooses to get done on their own -- with occasional help from online references, computing/programming courses, and solid research. All the best... On 4/26/2011 12:25 PM, Matty Sarro wrote: > Hey everyone. I am new to YDL, so please be gentle. Tonight I am > getting a 17" Powerbook G4 and I have a few questions. > Does YDL 6.2 stack up against the current rev of RHEL (6?) Or is it > closer to 5.5/5.6? > Has anyone been able to get compiz fusion working? > > I'm assuming that since the hardware is rather limited compared to > what we have to deal with in the x86 world, there is better out of the > box support? Is this correct? > > I appreciate any help anyone can provide. > > -Matty > _______________________________________________ > yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com > Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general > HINT: to Google archives, try '<keywords> site:us.fixstars.com' > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robert.spykerman at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 17:31:00 2011 From: robert.spykerman at gmail.com (Robert Spykerman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:31:00 +1000 Subject: [ydl-gen] Current rev? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2011/4/27 Matty Sarro > Hey everyone. I am new to YDL, so please be gentle. Tonight I am > getting a 17" Powerbook G4 and I have a few questions. > Does YDL 6.2 stack up against the current rev of RHEL (6?) Or is it > closer to 5.5/5.6? > Has anyone been able to get compiz fusion working? > > I'm assuming that since the hardware is rather limited compared to > what we have to deal with in the x86 world, there is better out of the > box support? Is this correct? > > I appreciate any help anyone can provide. > > -Matty > A ppc lappie? Nostalgia? :) Good on you! I did toy around with the idea of buying some old cheap G5's but on ebay they're still not cheap enough to consider buying just to toy around. AFAIK, YDL is a RHEL 5.x recompile... Re: eye candy. My YDL experience is somewhat limited to a PS3 and for a very brief period, an old G4 mac with no GPU to speak off. I don't know if anyone has ever got stuff like compiz running on a high end ppc with a GPU. My recollection was that the device driver for video on that G4 was not quite up to the OS X version (understandably, as presumably Apple knew more about the underlying hardware). Try here: they are mostly ps3 people though. http://www.yellowdog-board.com Oh, by the way, I found this (I'm more a debian person) but I really don't know how good the GPU is supported http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/ Do let us know how you get on! Robert -- chown -R us ./base -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhart at bates.edu Wed Apr 27 23:59:26 2011 From: jhart at bates.edu (Jim Hart) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:59:26 -0400 Subject: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum In-Reply-To: <4D77B809.2070700@ydl.net> References: <201103090837.p298b9s8025593@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi> <4D77B809.2070700@ydl.net> Message-ID: <4DB82F4E.1080603@bates.edu> I'd like to weigh in here, if I may. The Intel designs have one very major drawback...heat. Which implies noise! I've been working off and on for over a year to locate inexpensive parts to build the functional (but hardly aesthetic) equivalent of my beloved G4 Cube. The fan-less CPU cooler, alone, weighs nearly as much and is nearly as large as the Cube, and cost $75 on e-Bay. The cost of the rest of the parts that I've found is still over $1600, which I can 't afford. So, yes, cheap Intel-based systems are available. But they aren't quiet, never mind silent. (I recommend that anyone spends some time in a soundproof room and notice what happens physically and emotionally. The constant noise in our world causes stress and tension that we don't recognize because it's always there.) So, anything that will keep my Cube(s) going is welcome. That said, the O.S. isn't the only or even, necessarily, the biggest roadblock anymore. More and more applications aren't available for PPC. The newest version of Neooffice, for example, is Intel only. Some (I forget which one I ran across) won't even build from source on PPC. It's one thing for the O.S. to be CPU dependent, but desktop applications? What's with that? End of rant. I just had to say something because of the cost argument. Regards to all, Jim Hart On 3/9/11 12:25 PM, Derick Centeno wrote: > Although I appreciate learning that Gentoo Linux (and others) are active > in supporting the PowerPC the repairs I, and I'm sure others, need to > make on the PowerPC one has are such that it is actually cheaper to > acquire an x_86 system removing myself, and others similarly affected, > from using any PowerPC Linux thereby causing in effect an ever smaller > pool of PowerPC Linux users. From dcenteno at ydl.net Thu Apr 28 03:31:15 2011 From: dcenteno at ydl.net (Derick Centeno) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:31:15 -0400 Subject: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum In-Reply-To: <4DB82F4E.1080603@bates.edu> References: <201103090837.p298b9s8025593@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi> <4D77B809.2070700@ydl.net> <4DB82F4E.1080603@bates.edu> Message-ID: <4DB860F3.8020208@ydl.net> Hi Jim, To address your question, "What's with that?" it is easy to forget that many project including NeoOffice are utilize volunteer programmers. However, there is a "work-around" if you could get your G4 or other PowerPC (assuming you have one) to work although YDL is fairly dated by now, the office and other desktop applications within YDL 4 through YDL 6.2 should work rather well -- if you are willing to doing a little reprogramming of the yum search engine which searches, collects and puts together all dependencies for YDL applications. Instructions on doing that can be found here: http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3017#p11364 You would have to switch from relying upon OS X based apps to utilizing instead YDL; you could keep OS X around for running movies and stuff related to visual stuff but overall I believe Apple has stopped supporting OS X for any PowerPC systems. However the software for YDL remains available and if you've some programming skills then perhaps not everything is lost. So instead of NeoOffice which provides an interface to OS X, within YDL you use OpenOffice which remains available. What you already know and what I expressed earlier in this thread remains true, the issue that many of us face is about expense/value considerations is paramount. The other issue to consider is time, not everyone is willing to engage in the programming effort to do whatever it takes to make the YDL distro remain useful, if not current. All the best... On 4/27/2011 10:59 AM, Jim Hart wrote: > I'd like to weigh in here, if I may. The Intel designs have one very > major drawback...heat. Which implies noise! I've been working off and on > for over a year to locate inexpensive parts to build the functional (but > hardly aesthetic) equivalent of my beloved G4 Cube. The fan-less CPU > cooler, alone, weighs nearly as much and is nearly as large as the Cube, > and cost $75 on e-Bay. The cost of the rest of the parts that I've found > is still over $1600, which I can 't afford. So, yes, cheap Intel-based > systems are available. But they aren't quiet, never mind silent. (I > recommend that anyone spends some time in a soundproof room and notice > what happens physically and emotionally. The constant noise in our world > causes stress and tension that we don't recognize because it's always > there.) > > So, anything that will keep my Cube(s) going is welcome. > > That said, the O.S. isn't the only or even, necessarily, the biggest > roadblock anymore. More and more applications aren't available for PPC. > The newest version of Neooffice, for example, is Intel only. Some (I > forget which one I ran across) won't even build from source on PPC. It's > one thing for the O.S. to be CPU dependent, but desktop applications? > What's with that? > > End of rant. I just had to say something because of the cost argument. > > Regards to all, > > Jim Hart -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: