Installing to a G3 in target mode via a G5

[Derick Centeno]

On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:47 AM, H. Apfel wrote:

>> Just an idea, but perhaps a local library, university, college or 
>> school would allow you to have access or borrow (on loan) a cd drive 
>> created in the same era as your G3 iBook.
>
> Well, I wanted to avoid messing with the innards of an iBook if 
> possible...

You could get the cd drives such that they are external and you won't 
have to bother with the "innards"; the problem will be what the Mac 
Classic OS under stands regarding the device.  You may have to resort 
to loading the original plugins or drivers from the Apple System disk 
in order to run some of these external USB or Firewire drives — just so 
you can use the device and begin the Linux installation process onto 
where place you intend Linux to exist.

>> Failing that swapping out your CD drive for a compatible replacement 
>> may be an option; when considering such problems of repairs, parts 
>> etc, you may be interested in checking out www.fastermacs.net, more 
>> popularly known as Other World Computing or OWC.
>
> ... and I wanted to spare the expenses of a spare :-) ...

You have my compassion.... and I'm sure all skilled techies everywhere 
will share a collective moment of respectful communing of this common 
experience.

>>
>> As mostly every installer is designed to run from the hardware it is 
>> to be installed upon; a "target mode" option could work only if the 
>> installer had information regarding the G3.  Most G3's are Old World 
>> and need the BootX control panel to be operational in the Classic 
>> MacOS environment so that one can boot into YDL from BootX.  In your 
>> situation, this means that at the very least you may need not only a 
>> working CD drive; you may also need a functioning BootX from which to 
>> load and use Linux while you are on a G3.  Also if your intention is 
>> to use the current version of YDL, you will have to make sure the 
>> parameters of BootX are such that you will be able to run YDL 4.0 or 
>> YDL 4.1
>
> The only 'old world' I'm aware of are the beige G3's; both the iBook 
> (oh, i forgot to mention: it's translucent-white one; G3-500) and the 
> B/W are new world, aren't they?

Here's a nice discussion from Wikipedia on the whole confusing topic.  
It's a useful start, the English isn't bad and it's mostly accurate 
enough to get you where you need to go... cross check the links and 
google whatever remains unclear just to be sure.  Here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_World_ROM

Of course, if you don't want to bother with all that, a really quick 
test is whether it will boot from a completely installed YDL via yaboot 
using YDL 3.0 forward.  If the computer can't self-boot into a working 
version of YDL (wipe the drive clean, install only YDL onto it, then 
when done press the power button and see what happens) it's a safe bet 
that the "innards" are Old World.
>
>>
>> Not to suggest anything which would not interest you, but if you are 
>> interested in 32bit systems a G4 Powerbook doesn't need the above 
>> steps.  Indeed if you don't care for OS X as many don't you can 
>> easily wipe clean the PB drive and install YDL 4.1 on it and the 
>> thing will run really, really fast and you'll have a full scale 
>> server as a laptop.
>
> The main job for the iBook will be to control (and I mean control, not 
> only log!) heating and aircon in our new home, so the focus is more 
> around low power (and price) then about speed. TO be more precise I'll 
> try to press the kenel essentials into a 1 or 2 Gig memory stick and 
> boot from that with the swap partition in RAM, so I can stop worrying 
> about mechanical drives in the system.
>

I'm not an engineer, but I believe an hfs partition for yaboot is 
necessary as that is the portion talking with the Mac's internals.  In 
short, the problem may be more intractable than you currently imagine, 
or maybe the resolution is a lot simpler than what I'm presenting ... 
what I'm unclear about is this:  Linux and the Linux kernel can exist 
nearly anywhere ... it won't care where it works from or exists on.  
Yaboot however is an application which talks to the Mac and explains to 
it how control is going to be passed to Linux.  I believe yaboot itself 
resides in the hfs partition.  I'm unsure that Yaboot is as flexible as 
Linux is, and even if it is... I'm not sure if that old Mac or any old 
Mac would understand a device somehow mimicing (if it is possible at 
all) an hfs partition while residing on a memory stick.

It may be useful, to ask this specific question separately and post it 
to this list together with details of the plans for the powerbook you 
revealed.  You did check the moisture and condensation and humidity 
parameters which the ibook can tolerate, yes?  The conditions are not 
too close to either end of Apple's recommendations? After all no sense 
considering even researching anything if the hardware itself will just 
not function under those conditions or will rapidly come to failure.

I raise the point because those plastic shells are the first items to 
collect moisture on their inner and outer surfaces.  The last thing you 
need is for the ibook to look fine outside (the human eye can't see 
fine collections of moisture anyway; by the time the eye does see 
something delicate circuits are ruined) but collecting dew on it's 
circuits because it's casing is not designed to resist changes in 
condensation point/vapor pressure which is itself affected or related 
to changes in barometric pressure in different regions and at different 
elevations.  This can be a problem.

>> Good Luck...
>
> It looks as if I could really need some of that ;-)

Yeah... the more I think about what you are trying to do, you may be 
battling not technological nuances, but the physics of living on Earth. 
  So I'm going to wish you lots and lots of
Great Luck!!  By the way, you don't live anywhere near Tornado alley, 
the Great Lakes or rivers or coasts or any other place subject to 
frequent storms such as hurricanes, lightning -- that kind of thing ... 
remember to factor those elements into your considerations.  Oh, one 
more thing, you will have a separate UPS (uninterruptible power supply) 
to support and protect the ibook, right?