[ydl-gen] Slow ibook X11 (2D)

[Warren Nagourney]

I  think that the PS3 community would have been willing to pay for  
accelerated video, though I don't know whether that would have made it  
profitable. I actually think that this misses the point.  Apple did  
very well just after the Mac was introduced in 1984 by encouraging 3rd  
party software and helping build the enthusiasm for the platform.  If  
Sony had opened up the GPU (at least provided drivers for linux),  
there could have been a small groundswell of enthusiasm for the  
machine which certainly would have also translated into the sale of  
games. I hate video games but many of the potential linux users don't  
feel this way and would have bought them.

Right now, I have a bad taste in my mouth about Sony and to a smaller  
extent about the PS3. I will continue to use it as a platform for  
learning about the Cell, but much of my enthusiasm for the platform  
has been lost.  The forums at ps2dev were buzzing with excitement  
after the "hack" was successful; recently the number of new posts is  
about one a week and most are about some peripheral, not the PS3.

I simply don't see how the desktop experience for PPC linux on Macs  
can compare to that of OS X. The latter is a mature, fairly delightful  
system to use with lots of very good software available at reasonable  
prices (of for free).  It is very fast right now with excellent ppc  
support (even Flash!!). Even on the x86 side, where the performance is  
not as much an issue (since x86 is supported), Linux is quite a bit  
behind OS X, in my opinion. This is too bad, since I strongly support  
the open software movement. Part of the problem is that the linux  
developers have been trying to emulate windows and this is not a very  
good paradigm, in my opinion. The rest might be the closed hardware  
and proliferation of different configurations which make linux  
difficult to administer.

I do support the efforts of Fixstars in making a ppc and Cell linux  
available. Perhaps the Powerstation will aquire a Cell processor  
without a price increase and can actually become a reasonable  
competitor to the PS3 as a Cell platform. All of the others are much  
too expensive for mass consumption, in my opinion. Eventually, Intel  
will come up with a competitor - it will probably be technically  
inferior but will be marketed well to the consumer, if history is any  
guide.

Cheers,

wn


On Jan 19, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Kai Staats wrote:

>> In my opinion, this will
>> never change with PPC hardware, which is a tiny niche of a small
>> niche. It would be nice if a PPC vendor like Fixstars could fix this,
>> but they would need serious cooperation from the GPU manufacturers
>> and that is likely not forthcoming (the PS3 linux disaster is a case
>> at point).
>
> Yes, because PPC hardware is a relatively small player in the  
> commodity,
> consumer world, there is less pressure and less reason for companies  
> such as
> Apple to support Linux. But the inside story is that Apple was  
> conflicted,
> for at one time (2000/2001) they had a Linux Technology Manager,  
> full-time,
> with a small team at his disposal. But eventually, this position was
> terminated (as far as I know).
>
> Apple's shareholders want religious focus, not me-too consideration  
> of all
> things possible. Linux simply was not on the radar outside of the  
> work by the
> former Terra Soft, which was granted a unique license to install  
> Linux and
> maintain warranty, but never received a single bit of data.
>
> Concerning Sony, similar unfolding. While the former CEO of Sony had  
> a vision
> for the PS3 to be more than a game box, selling PS3s without games  
> actually
> loses money for Sony (or so the rumor goes). So if you open the RSX  
> so that
> Linux lovers may run their favorite games (Windows emus as well) on  
> the PS3,
> Sony loses money on each PS3 they sell to Linux users who don't buy  
> games.
>
> You have to keep in mind that >90% of PPC is embedded. We use it  
> every day for
> telecom, auto, routers, etcv. And most of it is running some flavor of
> Linux/Unix. What we as consumers enjoy is a unique PPC + Linux  
> combination
> for the desktop which is by no means the largest following on the  
> planet.
>
> Consumers + x86 + Linux makes money for x86 OEMs due to the  
> incredible variety
> of low-cost parts and systems.
>
> PPC + Linux is an increasingly powerful combination in  
> supercomputing and
> embedded applications, but to date, there have not been a great many  
> consumer
> products built on Power.
>
> But all things cycle, right? So maybe some of the new CPUs from  
> Freescale or
> AMCC will find their way into consumer products again ... or maybe  
> the next
> gen Playstation will have more RAM --who knows?
>
> Until then, Fixstars does its best to support the commodity systems  
> to keep
> the ecosystem healthy. It is more difficult to sell high-end systems  
> if we do
> not have the mid-range as well, something to experiment with or run  
> on the
> side of the cluster for devel or testing. The PS3 works very well  
> for this,
> and plays a significant role in several outstanding clusters.
>
> Could we get 2D, even 3D support for the older Macs? Sure, but could  
> we
> justify the expense? No, not unless we charge a helluvalot more for  
> the
> licenses.
>
> Sincerely,
> kai
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