[ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies

[rhubbell]

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:42 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100
> Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> > wrote: ...snip...
> > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet" other
> > > PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program using YDL on
> > > various hardware systems.  There's a lot a good people there who
> > > can help you move forward a lot faster than you going it solo.
> > 
> > I completely agree. There are not many online forums for YDL - I
> > believe this mailing list and the YDL board
> > http://www.yellowdog-board.com/ are the only two specific ones.
> > 
> > I am new to YDL too myself. I suspect not many people use it very much
> > these days if traffic in these lists or the YDL board is anything to
> > go by, at least relative to the traffic you can see on the ubuntu
> > boards.
> >       
> 
> You are quite right Robert, the traffic regarding PowerPC programming
> has changed quite a bit over the years.  There had been a great deal of
> traffic here when Apple incorporated the PowerPC in it's computer
> hardware.  When Apple switched to Intel there were many changes in
> the traffic here and then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony developed game
> systems which incorporated not only the most advanced PowerPC system
> available to date (the Cell) but the most intensively powerful CPU
> available to consumers.  Out of all these companies however only Sony
> allowed an option which allowed users to use and run YDL on their PS3s
> thereby turning what had been merely a game computer into the
> equivalent of a supercomputer available to forward looking consumers.
> 
> Of course, not everyone who purchased the PS3 would be interested in
> hi-tech programming on the Cell but that potential was available as
> long as Sony allowed the OtherOS option to exist.  With the OtherOS
> option all members of the family could not only play games but explore
> advanced technical areas ranging from introductory to advanced
> programming concepts of nearly every level of endeavor.  The only
> comparison I can think of is imagining families with the PS3 being
> awarded a free perpetual opportunity to attend the most advanced
> computer labs at MIT or Stanford or Yale for their own personal
> exploration and use. The Cell is that flexible.

I hadn't heard that the CELL was end-of-lifed. I guess it's true.
But any idea why?  Who killed the Cell/BE?

Toshiba owns the chip fab? Have they announced anything?
I see the Zego vanished. What about the blades based on Cell/BE?

Collectivism at work? Too much compute power for the citizen?

> 
> However for various reasons Sony closed that potential when the Slim
> version of the PS3 was released while they almost simultaneously
> announced that no further PS3s would be produced with the OtherOS
> option which meant that only the previous generation PS3s with the
> OtherOS option would continue to be sold until the inventory was
> exhausted.  This meant that although there would continue to be persons
> who ran YDL on PS3s that number would be finite and would not include
> anyone who purchased the PS3 Slim forward.  
> 
> Fixstars which produces YDL, runs on many PowerPC systems however fewer
> of these available systems exist at a price which consumers normally
> purchase between $200-$500.  Fixstar's PowerStation for instance can be
> had for $1000+ and if one wants the Cell included with that there
> exists a PCI card which one can purchase fits into the PowerStation
> beginning at $6,000+.  There will be lovers of hi-tech and
> professionals involved in programming advanced systems who will use YDL,
> YDEL, etc.  which run on such PowerPC technologies which may be or
> become available but this is no longer the "family" or "consumer"
> priced systems which people have considered as reasonably affordable
> over during the years Apple or Sony sold their systems which means as
> well that fewer people will have experience with advanced computers.
> 
> Intel technology is popular and common, but it is not based on
> radically new thinking as regards computer architecture.  Intel rather
> is very astute in utilizing old architectures in radically new ways.
> As inventive as such approaches are in my thinking it is akin to
> considering how many ways a paper clip can bend.
> 
> In fact, this is exactly why the modern market has developed into the
> weird reality we find ourselves in where Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony
> are vendors who each run the Cell in their own very powerful computing
> game systems but each system is "locked" in the sense that consumers
> cannot use Linux to utilize the flexibility of the Cell on any of
> these systems for themselves or their families.  This is great for
> producing strictly advanced gaming computers however it is terrible for
> those who want to use those same computers as working systems or family
> based learning and research systems which run independently designed
> projects.  In fact, families and individuals who purchase the Xbox, Wii
> and PS3 Slim now have to also purchase other computers as their
> work/research stations at home.  The consumer is paying very much more
> than twice over all these purchases.
> 
> A range of technical details exploring various views exists within the
> YDL Board for those who are interested in researching the topic.
> 
> > As much as I hate saying this, you may want to check out Ubuntu as an
> > alternative for a beginner for the following reason -  there appear to
> > be more distro specific 'current' books on the shelves of local
> > bookshops, and at a brief glance, their forums appear to be more
> > active. No doubt some questions and issues you will have will be ps3
> > specific but they have a forum for that too. People say ubuntu gnome
> > or kde (kubuntu) is a big of a memory hog so some say xubuntu (xfce
> > desktop) is possibly the best variant to install on the ps3.
> >       
> Ubuntu is a variant of Debian Linux.  Oddly enough however Ubuntu
> decided to cease officially supporting PowerPC systems quite sometime
> ago which means that help is entirely provided as it is by the
> "community" which really means whoever cares to do so which also means
> whenever someone has the opportunity to get to it. This is a really
> terrible development for beginners who need as much help as possible
> from professionals who are at the top of their game. Read more here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC
> 
> I have participated on this list long enough to remember a good number
> of people who not only were encouraging others to switch to Ubuntu but
> doing everything possible to "pull" people over there.  When Ubuntu
> made their choice those people who had left here either had to switch
> to Intel Linux or accept Ubuntu's terms.  I'm not aware of those who
> came back to participate on the YDL lists or the YDL Board again.  It
> was really pretty sad all the way around -- all that energy and
> enthusiasm wasted.
> 
> Oddly enough however professional support remains with Debian Linux
> itself although they always primarily supported x86 or Intel based
> Linux. See here:  http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/index.en.html
> 
> The professionals who developed YDL, Terra Soft Solutions (TSS), have
> always been at the top of the PowerPC development environment.  In the
> past, this was nearly the exclusive achievement of TSS; it may not be
> possible for any company to exclusively develop for one computer
> architecture any longer -- we will have to see how Fixstars (who
> inherited YDL from TSS) chooses to move in the current environment which
> exists.
> 
> Regardless what they do however the marketplace as far as the normal
> user is concerned is extremely expensive given what has taken place.
> 
> In many ways, the deal regarding the old PS3s remains a fast
> disappearing opportunity which would be wise to acquire as quickly as
> possible because once it is gone, that is pretty much it unless another
> company finds a means to re-introduce the Cell or another PowerPC
> system as something other than a game or cellphone computer.
> 
> May everyone have a wonderful celebration of these holidays and New
> Year.
> 
> 
> =========
> 
> Refranes/Popular sayings:
> The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
> There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.