[ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies

[Derick Centeno]

From: rhubbell <Rhubbell at iHubbell.com>
Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
<yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com> 
To: yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com 
Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies 
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:35 -0800 (14:42 EST) 
Mailer: Mail-2.1

Hi Robert:

In order to help you get a handle on the whole topic I went back to
recover a prior submission I made to this list addressing the
end-of-life for the Cell.  In fairness, Warren Nagourney, another
contributor to this list, mentioned it first.  However, he did not
provide a specific link or reference.  As I don't sit well with mere
unverified references I researched the subject matter in Ars Technica
and discovered an interview with an IBM rep. which discussed the whole
issue in detail.

The gist of the article clearly states that although the Cell has been
mothballed work is proceeding with a novel approach which integrates
what has been learned through working with it.  IBM is moving forward
with has been described technically as Heterogeneous Multicore systems
-- a basic overview of Multicore systems is found surprisingly here:
http://www.fixstars.com/en/multicore/processors.html.  The good news
then is that development from IBM will proceed along the lines of
something which acts or looks like the Toshiba SpursEngine or other
Heterogeneous design. When development proceeds as it surely will, then
will be the time to discover which version of Linux will run on it.  

There's a lot to be positive and excited about for persons interested
in programming advanced architectures.  The developments are more
interesting as elements of previously diverse and competing
architectures have become morphed into one which makes programming
these new heterogeneous systems easier, not harder.  Determining
whether we will see something progressing along the lines of the
Toshiba SpursEngine or Nvidia's Tesla design is hard to determine.
IBM's vision means more powerful and capable systems way beyond those
which exist currently and in the near future.

A good head's up for Apple users is that Apple is much more likely to
accept IBM's new direction in the effort to maintain Apple's edge as 
creative hardware and operating system par excellence.  Although many
here will wait and see what comes, a few will study what IBM does and
act accordingly.  I can guarantee, as a former Apple developer, that
Apple pros are studying IBM's efforts and progress as well.


On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:42 -0500
Derick Centeno wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100
> Robert Spykerman <robert.spykerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
> > wrote: ...snip...
> > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet"
> > > other PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program
> > > using YDL on various hardware systems.  There's a lot a good
> > > people there who can help you move forward a lot faster than you
> > > going it solo.
> > ...
I hadn't heard that the CELL was end-of-lifed. I guess it's true.
But any idea why?  Who killed the Cell/BE?

Toshiba owns the chip fab? Have they announced anything?
I see the Zego vanished. What about the blades based on Cell/BE?

Collectivism at work? Too much compute power for the citizen?



-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Derick Centeno <dcenteno at ydl.net>
Reply-To: Discussion List for Yellow Dog Linux User Topics
<yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com> To:
yellowdog-general at lists.fixstars.com Subject: Re: [ydl-gen] Linux
yellow dog manual for dummies Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:23:53 -0500

I thought you, Rob and interested others would find this article
interesting as it follows along the lines of what you stated earlier
with some different details.  

First the article:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/11/end-of-the-line-for-ibms-cell.ars

You'll note that future development and computers (including laptops -
Yippee!) will follow along an integrated or morphed design path which
implements both AMD/Intel with Cell/PowerPC aspects of handling complex
processing.  This could well mean systems which look more like the
system which is within the Toshiba Qosimo (referring to the Toshiba
SpursEngine).

I recall discussing details regarding how the Cell's technology was
morphed into the SPEC engine with some astute people at the YDL Board
awhile ago.  IBM's decision therefore kills the Cell as Cell, but not
what was derived by learning and working with it.

It is interesting that this movement forward comprises methods
previously exclusive to disparate architecture families (Intel v.
PowerPC); everything running today will need to be rewritten for those
newer systems as they will be unlike what has come before. This also
means something rather challenging which I hinted at previously, the
skills needed to program the new systems will require people familiar
programming for PowerPC/Cell and Intel systems.  A skill which remains
rare and becoming rarer still.  However those skills are transferable
and advantageous in leaping forward into seriously working with this new
hybrid.  The new hybrid will be further advanced than the system
within the Qosimo. 

As the hardware moving forward has changed so must Linux and commercial
operating systems.  YDL won't remain what it is; it will have to morph
into something else to meet what is coming.  That choice, if any is
made, is up to Fixstars.  I hope that they choose well so that they are
right in the thick of it.

The best to all...

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:46:22 -0800
Warren Nagourney <warren at phys.washington.edu> wrote:

> That's very interesting, Rob. Were the apps compiled using the same  
> compilers (with the same degree of optimization) in both cases? Were  
> the time differences actual CPU time of just elapsed time? ...
> 


=========

Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
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=========
Refranes/Popular sayings:
The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom.
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