Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!

Deacon Nikolai DeaconNikolai at Stanosheck.com
Sun Aug 7 14:50:39 MDT 2005


Dear Derick,

	Thank you again. Both for your help and honesty of the situation. I
finally figured out how to burn the ISOs correctly on my other Mac, an
iBook that is running Mac OS X 10.4. I am actually using that iBook with
YDL 4.0.1 installed on a small partition. I also found some 3.0.l ISOs
and burned them to CDs.

	In the past I actually had this 3400c (by using some major hacks)
running 9.2.2! It really slowed things down though. I think I was as
happiest with 9.2.1. 

	Anyway, where is the best place to put BootX in the Mac OS X folder
hierarchy when I add it to my 3400c? Without it, my 3400c does not seem
to recognize the 3.0.1 CDs as a start up disk. Should this be expected? 

	One more total newbie question. How do I install Firefox and
Thunderbird? I am not sure how to use YUM or get updated or new
software. Also is is possible to install Flash?

	Thanks again for all the help!

In Christ,
Deacon Nikolai
http://www.Stanosheck.com



On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 12:00,
yellowdog-newbie-request at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help! (Deacon Nikolai)
>    2. Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help! (Derick Centeno)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:10:39 -0600
> From: Deacon Nikolai <deaconnikolai at stanosheck.com>
> Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
> To: yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
> Message-ID: <D4139C80-0820-4FB6-B9B3-4E43E20CABFA at stanosheck.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> 
> Thank you Derick!
> 
>      I had read since then that One could install 3.1 then upgrade  
> and it would work, but I guess not. My big issue right now seems to  
> be that I cannot properly burn the isos from my iBook running Mac OS  
> X 10.4.2 to CDs and make them bootable (as I tried using them to book  
> my iBook w/o success too) any help with the process?
> 
>      I am a big fan of the PowerPC processor, so I might buy one of  
> the last PPC Macs when they go completely Intel, to keep running on  
> my processor of choice. If my experementing with YDL goes well, it  
> could be a way to stick with PowerPCs.
> 
> In Christ,
> Deacon Nikolai
> http://www.Stanosheck.com
> 
> On Aug 6, 2005, at 12:00 PM, yellowdog-newbie- 
> request at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 01:50:06 -0400
> > From: Derick Centeno <aguilarojo at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
> > To: Yellow Dog Linux Newbie List
> >     <yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
> > Message-ID: <98294158fc7ab3898699f7d4412dcd28 at verizon.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > You downloaded the wrong iso's.
> >
> > Neither YDL 4.0.1/YDL 4.0 will function with Mac OS 8.6.  With MacOS
> > 8.6 you can only use either YDL 2.0 or YDL 3.0 or YDL 3.x.x where x is
> > any other number version after 3.0 up to BUT NOT AFTER 4.0.
> >
> > The reason this limitation exists has to do with how a decision was
> > made to not support BootX or any Mac OS lower than OS X, starting with
> > YDL 4.0  BootX is a control panel application which MacOS 8.6 up to OS
> > 9 (known as Classic) need to recognize and boot into Linux (thus the
> > name BootX).  I'm sure you are aware that you need to prepare a hard
> > drive so that YDL is installed onto it, but without BootX you can't
> > boot Linux!
> >
> > The other limitation is how Apple designed those systems using the
> > Classic OS; the PB 3400 uses the 603 chip.  It cannot use nor boot YDL
> > 4.0 directly.
> > So you are relegated to use either YDL 2 or 3 as I explained above.
> >
> > Before you consider anything else regarding money expenditure consider
> > that staying with YDL 2 or 3 may be new and something great; but many
> > more are working on YDL 4.0 and higher with G4's and G5's.  That means
> > that if you are stuck somewhere with code or something else, there may
> > be too few people to help you because you are too far back in what you
> > are using.  Jumping ahead into a G4 or G5 may not be an interesting or
> > advisable move for you either because of Apple's announcement that  
> > they
> > are changing and redesigning all their computers to run from  
> > Intel.  In
> > other words it may be more worth your while to wait before you spend
> > your money until an Intel based Mac desktop or laptop finally comes
> > into existence.  Then using an Intel based Linux means also you may no
> > longer even be on this list!
> >
> > Best wishes....
> > On Aug 5, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Deacon Nikolai wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >> I downloaded and burned the YDL 4.0.1 isos to try and install YDL  
> >> on a
> >> 3400c but am having no luck with Mac OS 8.6 realizing it is a  
> >> bootable
> >> Cd to start from. Any suggestions or help for this Linux newbie?
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 17:31:17 -0400
> From: Derick Centeno <aguilarojo at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
> To: Yellow Dog Linux Newbie List
> 	<yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
> Message-ID: <0634db853888d1e9a31432920ed80a5e at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> No Problem...
> 
> There are more details you should be aware of, however before you thank 
> me.  The saying in Engineering, and perhaps other careers goes "the 
> devil is in the details", so get prepared to not be happy.  And for 
> that, I will apologize ahead of time.
> 
> The PB 3400 came with a 603 chip which is a PowerPC chip.  If you are 
> running OS X Tiger on a 603, that IS pretty amazing.  But some programs 
> in Tiger will be looking for specific features which only PowerPC G4/G5 
> series have.  Why?  Because the design of that series is several 
> magnitudes of order beyond the 603.  Even the PowerPC G3, which is more 
> advanced than the 603 is not the recommended chip for running or 
> showing off OS X!
> 
> The 603 should have no trouble running Champion Server 1, and YDL 2 or 
> YDL 3.  However, you should be staying with Mac OS 8.6 which came with 
> your PB, because you probably have everything 8.6 would need (back up 
> software, diagnostic software etc.) but again to use YDL you need BootX 
> to be running within Mac OS 8.6  PB unlike their desktop and tower 
> cousins are not designed to be all that flexible.  You cannot easily 
> swap out motherboard, cpu, memory, graphic card, etc of a PB, as easily 
> as you could a desktop or tower system.  This limitation is also true 
> for the PC Intel based universe.
> 
> So keeping OS 8.6 is a great idea (moving up to OS 9 is not much of an 
> improvement) and still you need BootX to get into Linux regardless.  
> But you can upgrade from YDL 2 to YDL 3 or to YDL 3.x whatever it was, 
> but again what is possible for you with a PB 3400 stops there.
> 
> Burning isos or anything else, cannot be done with the standard CD-ROM 
> drive which came with the PB 3400.  You may perhaps have an external 
> DVD-RW/CD-RW drive which can burn isos or anything else, but I doubt 
> very much whether the circuitry or Mac OS 8.6 of the PB 3400 can handle 
> it well, if at all.  I recommend that you speak with the wonderful 
> wizards of Other World Computinng (www.fastermacs.com) if something can 
> be done to get modern functionality out of what you have those are the 
> folks to communicate with.  They don't support Linux however, although 
> anything I've gotten from them has always worked within YDL.  Right now 
> your   problem is to get the OS to burn your isos; they may have 
> software which works with 8.6.  Talk with them, write them an email.
> 
> Although I respect your enthusiasm regarding the PowerPC I will state 
> that Apple's decision is forcing a whole lot of thinking for many 
> people.  First of all your experience with the PowerPC is colored by 
> the OS which Apple produced for you and the rest of us.  However, that 
> OS will no longer be available for PowerPC based systems.  The OS 
> systems which remain with the PowerPC will be YDL, IBM's AIX and maybe 
> something produced by Genesi or Pegasos.  This means the type of 
> persons still sticking it out with the PowerPC will most likely be 
> mathematicians, engineers, and other professionals who are not 
> unwilling to investigate pages of code in hexadecimal.  Linux as an 
> alternative to Windows or the Mac OS is not the way to go for the 
> majority of people, because the majority of users cannot code in C or 
> C++.  And like it or not, solid programming skill is what is needed to 
> function even reasonably well in Linux just to get a normal task done.  
> It shouldn't be that hard, but it is.  And without the Mac OS to fall 
> back on you'll just have Linux on a PowerPC and your own skill or lack 
> of it.  The Mac OS will be departing for Intel real soon now, and I 
> don't think Apple is looking back at those who will continue to work on 
> PowerPC G4s/G5s.
> 
> You will not be the only person puzzled with what is going on, but you 
> may be so used to Apple's OS you may just have to follow them 
> where-ever they go.  Linux as an OS is not pretty, cuddly or warm.  It 
> is however, powerful, complete and uncompromising.  It is and has 
> become unique in a completely new way which will make many, many people 
> very uncomfortable.  It is as bad and different as Grad School can get 
> when all the Science and Engineering students gawk and laugh at 
> everyone else, it will get that way soon and worse.  Maybe not on this 
> list, but you may see it already here and there.  Also one more thing, 
> IBM is not Apple.  IBM's idea of an explanation of a task for eating a 
> sandwich would be found in Vol. 12, Section a, sentence 12;  Apple 
> explains nearly everything as though they were your buddy.  A lot of 
> people won't like that difference either, but IBM produces the chips so 
> ... it's every fellow for himself!
> 
> Welcome to the new reality.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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