yellowdog-newbie Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2

Sun Aug 7 13:23:03 MDT 2005

hey I am running NetBSD on PowerMacintosh 5500 no BootX needed. You download 
the latest version of NetBSD macppc make your boot1 and boot2 floppy disks 
and you are good to go. I have not tried it on the 3400c PowerBook but you 
should check NetBSD's hardware compatibility guide to see if your model is 
supported.

From: yellowdog-newbie-request at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
Reply-To: yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
To: yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
Subject: yellowdog-newbie Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
Date: Sun,  7 Aug 2005 12:00:21 -0600 (MDT)

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Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help! (Deacon Nikolai)
    2. Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help! (Derick Centeno)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:10:39 -0600
From: Deacon Nikolai <deaconnikolai at stanosheck.com>
Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
To: yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
Message-ID: <D4139C80-0820-4FB6-B9B3-4E43E20CABFA at stanosheck.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Thank you Derick!

      I had read since then that One could install 3.1 then upgrade
and it would work, but I guess not. My big issue right now seems to
be that I cannot properly burn the isos from my iBook running Mac OS
X 10.4.2 to CDs and make them bootable (as I tried using them to book
my iBook w/o success too) any help with the process?

      I am a big fan of the PowerPC processor, so I might buy one of
the last PPC Macs when they go completely Intel, to keep running on
my processor of choice. If my experementing with YDL goes well, it
could be a way to stick with PowerPCs.

In Christ,
Deacon Nikolai
http://www.Stanosheck.com

On Aug 6, 2005, at 12:00 PM, yellowdog-newbie-
request at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com wrote:

 > Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 01:50:06 -0400
 > From: Derick Centeno <aguilarojo at verizon.net>
 > Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
 > To: Yellow Dog Linux Newbie List
 >     <yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
 > Message-ID: <98294158fc7ab3898699f7d4412dcd28 at verizon.net>
 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
 >
 > You downloaded the wrong iso's.
 >
 > Neither YDL 4.0.1/YDL 4.0 will function with Mac OS 8.6.  With MacOS
 > 8.6 you can only use either YDL 2.0 or YDL 3.0 or YDL 3.x.x where x is
 > any other number version after 3.0 up to BUT NOT AFTER 4.0.
 >
 > The reason this limitation exists has to do with how a decision was
 > made to not support BootX or any Mac OS lower than OS X, starting with
 > YDL 4.0  BootX is a control panel application which MacOS 8.6 up to OS
 > 9 (known as Classic) need to recognize and boot into Linux (thus the
 > name BootX).  I'm sure you are aware that you need to prepare a hard
 > drive so that YDL is installed onto it, but without BootX you can't
 > boot Linux!
 >
 > The other limitation is how Apple designed those systems using the
 > Classic OS; the PB 3400 uses the 603 chip.  It cannot use nor boot YDL
 > 4.0 directly.
 > So you are relegated to use either YDL 2 or 3 as I explained above.
 >
 > Before you consider anything else regarding money expenditure consider
 > that staying with YDL 2 or 3 may be new and something great; but many
 > more are working on YDL 4.0 and higher with G4's and G5's.  That means
 > that if you are stuck somewhere with code or something else, there may
 > be too few people to help you because you are too far back in what you
 > are using.  Jumping ahead into a G4 or G5 may not be an interesting or
 > advisable move for you either because of Apple's announcement that
 > they
 > are changing and redesigning all their computers to run from
 > Intel.  In
 > other words it may be more worth your while to wait before you spend
 > your money until an Intel based Mac desktop or laptop finally comes
 > into existence.  Then using an Intel based Linux means also you may no
 > longer even be on this list!
 >
 > Best wishes....
 > On Aug 5, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Deacon Nikolai wrote:
 >
 >
 >> Hello All,
 >>
 >> I downloaded and burned the YDL 4.0.1 isos to try and install YDL
 >> on a
 >> 3400c but am having no luck with Mac OS 8.6 realizing it is a
 >> bootable
 >> Cd to start from. Any suggestions or help for this Linux newbie?

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 17:31:17 -0400
From: Derick Centeno <aguilarojo at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Trying to install on a 3400c PowerBook. Help!
To: Yellow Dog Linux Newbie List
	<yellowdog-newbie at lists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <0634db853888d1e9a31432920ed80a5e at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

No Problem...

There are more details you should be aware of, however before you thank
me.  The saying in Engineering, and perhaps other careers goes "the
devil is in the details", so get prepared to not be happy.  And for
that, I will apologize ahead of time.

The PB 3400 came with a 603 chip which is a PowerPC chip.  If you are
running OS X Tiger on a 603, that IS pretty amazing.  But some programs
in Tiger will be looking for specific features which only PowerPC G4/G5
series have.  Why?  Because the design of that series is several
magnitudes of order beyond the 603.  Even the PowerPC G3, which is more
advanced than the 603 is not the recommended chip for running or
showing off OS X!

The 603 should have no trouble running Champion Server 1, and YDL 2 or
YDL 3.  However, you should be staying with Mac OS 8.6 which came with
your PB, because you probably have everything 8.6 would need (back up
software, diagnostic software etc.) but again to use YDL you need BootX
to be running within Mac OS 8.6  PB unlike their desktop and tower
cousins are not designed to be all that flexible.  You cannot easily
swap out motherboard, cpu, memory, graphic card, etc of a PB, as easily
as you could a desktop or tower system.  This limitation is also true
for the PC Intel based universe.

So keeping OS 8.6 is a great idea (moving up to OS 9 is not much of an
improvement) and still you need BootX to get into Linux regardless.
But you can upgrade from YDL 2 to YDL 3 or to YDL 3.x whatever it was,
but again what is possible for you with a PB 3400 stops there.

Burning isos or anything else, cannot be done with the standard CD-ROM
drive which came with the PB 3400.  You may perhaps have an external
DVD-RW/CD-RW drive which can burn isos or anything else, but I doubt
very much whether the circuitry or Mac OS 8.6 of the PB 3400 can handle
it well, if at all.  I recommend that you speak with the wonderful
wizards of Other World Computinng (www.fastermacs.com) if something can
be done to get modern functionality out of what you have those are the
folks to communicate with.  They don't support Linux however, although
anything I've gotten from them has always worked within YDL.  Right now
your   problem is to get the OS to burn your isos; they may have
software which works with 8.6.  Talk with them, write them an email.

Although I respect your enthusiasm regarding the PowerPC I will state
that Apple's decision is forcing a whole lot of thinking for many
people.  First of all your experience with the PowerPC is colored by
the OS which Apple produced for you and the rest of us.  However, that
OS will no longer be available for PowerPC based systems.  The OS
systems which remain with the PowerPC will be YDL, IBM's AIX and maybe
something produced by Genesi or Pegasos.  This means the type of
persons still sticking it out with the PowerPC will most likely be
mathematicians, engineers, and other professionals who are not
unwilling to investigate pages of code in hexadecimal.  Linux as an
alternative to Windows or the Mac OS is not the way to go for the
majority of people, because the majority of users cannot code in C or
C++.  And like it or not, solid programming skill is what is needed to
function even reasonably well in Linux just to get a normal task done.
It shouldn't be that hard, but it is.  And without the Mac OS to fall
back on you'll just have Linux on a PowerPC and your own skill or lack
of it.  The Mac OS will be departing for Intel real soon now, and I
don't think Apple is looking back at those who will continue to work on
PowerPC G4s/G5s.

You will not be the only person puzzled with what is going on, but you
may be so used to Apple's OS you may just have to follow them
where-ever they go.  Linux as an OS is not pretty, cuddly or warm.  It
is however, powerful, complete and uncompromising.  It is and has
become unique in a completely new way which will make many, many people
very uncomfortable.  It is as bad and different as Grad School can get
when all the Science and Engineering students gawk and laugh at
everyone else, it will get that way soon and worse.  Maybe not on this
list, but you may see it already here and there.  Also one more thing,
IBM is not Apple.  IBM's idea of an explanation of a task for eating a
sandwich would be found in Vol. 12, Section a, sentence 12;  Apple
explains nearly everything as though they were your buddy.  A lot of
people won't like that difference either, but IBM produces the chips so
... it's every fellow for himself!

Welcome to the new reality.

------------------------------

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End of yellowdog-newbie Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
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