yellowdog-newbie digest, Vol 1 #573 - msgs 8/9

[Derick Centeno]

Dear Katherine:
Chaz is absolutely correct. You have 0MB of "free space".

In the world of Unix and especially Linux (irregardless of
version/vendor/etc.) you must learn to read the engineer's notes and how
computer internal systems communicate.  That means understanding well
bit/byte/1K blocks/MG/G and other terms that any computer utility such
as pdisk/fdisk and others, even Apple's Disk Drive utility will
communicate in terms of.  Indeed the Apple Disk Drive utility may cause
some harm and confusion because user's like yourself will expect a
graphical interface to help them repartition their drive.  Clicking and
selecting a partition with the Apple utility and dragging the thick line
to form one or two partitions, is a far cry, mon ami, from how pdisk
behaves.

It is not a laughing matter that the gulf of details required to
partition, install, compile, etc. in the Unix/Linux environment,
especially when one starts to comprehend and it dawns upon one how
spoiled the Graphic User Interface has made all of us.  As the GUI of
Windows or Macs get better, the gulf of comprehensibility in using and
understanding, standard Unix/Linux utilities seems to get larger.

I can only encourage you to get the manuals, or texts from where-ever
you can and as you master the details you'll also come to understand the
limits of GUIs and such programs such as "auto-anythings" and eventually
you may become more confident to actually create your own partitions and
hacks.  This all takes time of course, but like anything else, once you
know - you know - and that may be the ultimate time-saver.

Besides do you really trust a program, any program, to do what you
actually want done?  Unless you wrote the program, I recommend that you
don't "trust" it that much; always have a way out you know works because
you, not any it, should always be in control.  And if you must "trust" a
program, whether it is in your microwave, or on your computer, make sure
you know exactly each and every step "it" is engaging in or doing. The
computer may do a thing thousands of times faster than you, but if you
cannot even do one step, even once manually on your own power, you don't
yet know what it is, in fact, doing. If you don't, you are allowing the
universe to play odds or chances, and you are engaging in a gamble.  Of
course, many consider the universe a marvelous and supportive place but
that can change very fast, and often suddenly does.  Be prepared for the
consequences and in that event the dog will not only bite, you may
discover too late that the dogs are not dogs, but wolves.

Then again if you have prepared and practiced, then the wolves will be
like any other creature, or situation, subject to human control and you
will master it.  Linux and Open Source and the Net is the "Wild West"
all over again, but in a new and very slick package; I think of it kind
of like "Everyone's Pizza", like "Everyone's punch" or  "Pot Luck Punch"
used to be in the 70's.  The idea was anyone invited to a party or
meeting would bring their ingredient or food or whatever and add it to
the mix of what was being offered.  SOME people would add oranges,
apples and strawberries, others would add bennies, uppers, downers,
hannibis as an herb, coke, or LSD for a kick.  There is no telling
people what type of "fun" is really not good for "everyone".  This is
probably why viruses, worms and whatnot exist as well.  I may not have
turned you off to Everyone's Pizza or Open Source, but hopefully you
will have a better understanding that just as in the end only you are
responsible for what goes in your mouth, you are also responsible for
what goes on in your computer as well as understanding what it is trying
to tell you.

You should consider getting an external drive and install Linux on
that.  You'll be able to dual boot between the Mac OS and Linux,
instantaneously but the data on your Mac will be physically separate
from the data on the drive dedicated to Linux.  That is a very wise and
good thing to do.  Your model may only have space for one internal hard 
drive.  In the event that the universe decides that your hard drive will
crash; the universe will tend, being the efficient and reasonable Being
it is, to crash one drive, not two.

Also the physical manner in which the read/write head of the drive
behaves is different for Linux than for other OS's and so two
independent drives acting separately and in a uniform manner on that
particular drive lengthens the life of the hard drive.  Whereas one the
same drive the read/write head has to shuttle between the Linux OS and
the Mac OS portion and write files accordingly.  Consider the nearly
blinding speed at which the read/write head is moving across the various
platters or disks and it should not be a problem to imagine how a hard
drive could crash, or otherwise loose data or other physical problem.



Message: 8
From: <devilc@cox.net>
To: yellowdog-newbie@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
Subject: Grrrr.  How do I get this installed?
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 0:37:47 -0400
Reply-To: yellowdog-newbie@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com

Computer I'm trying to install on:

iMac 350  blueberry slotload  happily running 9.1 until I decided to
give 
YDL a whirl.

What goes wrong:

1) Despite the fact that I select the graphical installer, at the very
end I 
get a message about X server failing and am kicked into the text 
installer.  [Hoo boy, talk about making a baaaad impression on 
somebody who just shelled out for the disks and (useless) manual. If I 
had wanted the frikken text installer, I would've selected the frikken
text 
installer!]

2) Auto partion fails because I do not specify a root partition. 
[Hello?  
It's called AUTOpartition.  Like, isn't it supposed to take care of all
that 
crap AUTOmatically?]  If it doesn't automatically set up a
root/boot/swap 
arrangement, WTF is it for?

3) The companion to installing tells you what to do in the GUI version
of 
Disk Druid, but gives no clue what to do when you've been put eyes 
front, trousers down by the text installer.  It talks about "apple 
bootstrap" and I do not see those words anywhere on my screen.

[BTW, I do tech writing as a large component of my job.  The words "Piss
Poor" do not begin to describe the book and install guide.]

4) In DD I get
/dev/hda
  dev/hda1  (0mb in size, mount point N/A.  Which I cannot edit because 
it's the apple partition map)
  dev/hda2  (6532mb hfs format, mount point N/A)
  free space (0 mb in size.  I've tried to change the size of this, but
none 
of my guesses work.  I've tried calling the mount point here / but it's
not 
buying that, either.)

5) WTF is a mount point?  

6) Because I don't have a / parition to install on, the installer does
not go 
any further.

Would somebody, please, in excruciating detail, explain to me what I 
need to do to tell the OS where to go and live?  I'm not even trying to 
make it share the disk with Os X.  I was going to be nice to YDL and
give 
it it's very own home, and the frikkin dog just bit me.

-Katherine-



--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:07:49 -0600
Subject: Re: Grrrr.  How do I get this installed?
From: Chaz McGarvey <chaz@brokenzipper.com>
To: yellowdog-newbie@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com
Reply-To: yellowdog-newbie@lists.terrasoftsolutions.com

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:37 PM, <devilc@cox.net> wrote:

> Computer I'm trying to install on:
>
> iMac 350  blueberry slotload  happily running 9.1 until I decided to 
> give
> YDL a whirl.
>
> What goes wrong:
>
> 1) Despite the fact that I select the graphical installer, at the very
> end I
> get a message about X server failing and am kicked into the text
> installer.  [Hoo boy, talk about making a baaaad impression on
> somebody who just shelled out for the disks and (useless) manual. If I
> had wanted the frikken text installer, I would've selected the frikken
> text
> installer!]
>
> 2) Auto partion fails because I do not specify a root partition.  
> [Hello?
> It's called AUTOpartition.  Like, isn't it supposed to take care of 
> all that
> crap AUTOmatically?]  If it doesn't automatically set up a 
> root/boot/swap
> arrangement, WTF is it for?
>
> 3) The companion to installing tells you what to do in the GUI version
> of
> Disk Druid, but gives no clue what to do when you've been put eyes
> front, trousers down by the text installer.  It talks about "apple
> bootstrap" and I do not see those words anywhere on my screen.
>
> [BTW, I do tech writing as a large component of my job.  The words 
> "Piss
> Poor" do not begin to describe the book and install guide.]
>
> 4) In DD I get
> /dev/hda
>   dev/hda1  (0mb in size, mount point N/A.  Which I cannot edit
because
> it's the apple partition map)
>   dev/hda2  (6532mb hfs format, mount point N/A)
>   free space (0 mb in size.  I've tried to change the size of this, 
> but none
> of my guesses work.  I've tried calling the mount point here / but 
> it's not
> buying that, either.)
>
> 5) WTF is a mount point?
>
> 6) Because I don't have a / parition to install on, the installer does
> not go
> any further.
>
> Would somebody, please, in excruciating detail, explain to me what I
> need to do to tell the OS where to go and live?  I'm not even trying
to
> make it share the disk with Os X.  I was going to be nice to YDL and 
> give
> it it's very own home, and the frikkin dog just bit me.

If I understand you correctly, you do not have any "free space" on your 
hard drive to install Linux.  The installer will create the necessary 
partitions out of the "free space" that is available (and automatically 
if you choose), but since you have none, the partitions can't be 
created and Linux can't be installed.  Have you partitioned your hard 
drive with a Mac OS disk utility like (tada) Disk Utility?  Using this 
utility, you can create HFS (and HFS+) type partitions which Mac OS 
recognizes and uses and you can also set aside some of the disk as 
"free space" or "unallocated."  Once you do this, the installer should 
find the unused part of the disk and format as much of it as you want 
(probably the rest of it) for use by YDL.

Hopefully that's what you're looking for.  By the way, repartitioning 
your hard drive generally means that existing partitions and data on 
those partitions are erased so make sure you back up your files on your 
Mac OS partition.  Disk Utility is found on virtually all Mac OS 
install CDs.

As for why the installer dumped you into the text installer, I don't 
know enough about your specific model to say (besides, I'm a 
Linux-newbie myself).  A number of things could be happening, but it 
will be easier to troubleshoot once YDL is installed.

Good luck,
Chaz